The name game

[Eamonn 61]

While I do respect the views of others in the forum. I have to admit that the constant correction about Venturing and the terms used is becoming very irksome.

Sure they are Cub Scouts and not just Cubs and Lord forbid we ever call them Cubbies.

And yes Boy Scouts are Boy Scouts, we know if we just call them Scouts we might be talking about Sea Scouts, Cub Scouts or Varsity Scouts.

Maybe a Crew Member might be confused with a Sea Scout who is a member of a Crew.

But gezz most of the time in the forum we know what group some one is talking about.

Please lighten up a little.

Eamonn.

[emb021 16]

The problem is that too many people don't know the correct terms and don't use them.

 

We are not talking the occasional slip of the tongue. We are talking about the constant wrong terms used on council website, that then progress to units and members then using the wrong terms.

 

Using the wrong terms is little different then mispronouncing peoples names. I have several coworkers who have difficult to pronounce names. Should they ignore the fact that I mess up? No, its rude of me not to get it right. Should I get bent out of shape because someone dares to correct my mispronunciation of their name? No, its again its rude of me not to get it right.

 

The people who need to 'lighten up' are those who get upset when someone points out a clear error. There is a reason the BSA has a "Language of Scouting" work which points out the correct terms.

 

[packsaddle 753]

Boy, I know what you mean! It makes me cringe when leaders refer to boys as 'sweetie' or 'snookums' or 'pookerdoodle'. The boys seem to maintain a sense of humor but I try to stamp this stuff out and no matter how much I try, moms just will be moms. Does this violate G2SS or something, maybe hazing?

[scoutldr 732]

As my dad used to say,"you can call me anything except late for dinner."

[Eamonn 61]

Talking as someone who has gone through most of his life with a name that a lot of people, depending on location (In Ireland they tend to get it right!!)

I don't get upset or bent out of shape when people get it wrong.

Yes by the way Eamonn is my real first name.

I blame my parents for giving me such a strange name.

Just as I blame the BSA for getting this wrong.

Having a Venture Patrol in Boy Scouting and then adding a Venturing Crew in Venturing shows lack of imagination!

Maybe it's just in our area but I can't think of anyone (Other then when they recite the Venturing Oath and code) who uses the term "Venturers" ?

Back when I was a Venture Scout and belonged to a Venture Unit back home in the UK, we never had these problems. People seemed happy with Venture Scouts and yes it was a co-ed program. Venture Scouting seemed to be not that hard to manage.

It seems that even the Venturing Division doesn't always get it right? Looking at the web site I see "Resources for the Crew". Surely if that were to be 100% correct it should read Resources for the Venturing Crew?

On the Venturing BSA history page I even see:

" Moments when a young lady stands before a group to tell how she finally had a place to be a Scout along with her mom, dad, and brothers."

Should someone inform her that she has got it wrong? Should someone tell the Venturing Division?

Eamonn.

[local1400 10]

SR540Beaver, wheres those brass knuckles when you need em???

[Stosh 3452]

"A rose by any other name is still a rose."

 

Language is the medium by which we convey ideas. If I use the term Cub Scout or Cub, the listener indeed hears and interprets the idea without any difficulty. AND if one wree to missselpl wrods the preosn's bairn can sitll mkae out the ieda bieng uesd.

 

Constant correction is unnecessary and when a first-timer experiences such activity is it rude and inappropriate. While the scout law indicates friendly, courtesy and kind, such correction comes off rude and condescending.

 

 

 

 

[SWScouter 34]

I also feel that sometimes people are too concerned about this. On the other hand, perhaps someone should tell Scouter Terry to fix the description for the Venturing Program forum area, "Meet people from other Venture Crews and discuss program."

[packsaddle 753]

Local1400, he was threatening to use them on me so I tattled to his mommy and she took them away and made him sit in the corner for 10 minutes.

I guess I've become desensitized to this issue. For the first few years of my marriage, my wife would 'speak in tongues' using misplaced terms or terms with an obscure logical connection that a dyslexic person sometimes does. Back then when I asked for clarification, the rebuke, "...you knew what I meant!" was quick. So now, a few decades later, I have cultivated the skill of translation from 'tongues' to whatever was really meant, based on its context.

I guess for me, the careless use of terms in scouting pales in comparison to life at home.

[emb021 16]

Maybe this story will help.

 

Back in the early 90s, when I first got on-line, one of the things I did was join Scouts-L. One day I made the mistake of refering to the Girl Scouts as "GSA". A simple mistake, but which caused several people to 'jump' on me and point out that the term is GSUSA.

 

Now, how should I have reacted?

 

Should I have complained that they are only interested in terminology? (an prehaps quite in a huff?)

 

No.

 

Should I have trotted out the Scout Law to somehow justify my mistake?

 

No.

 

Should I have complained that in my area everyone called them that, so that makes it ok?

 

No.

 

I was in the wrong. I used the wrong term, and it was pointed out to me. While it may have been done a little stronger then necessary, in and of itself, pointing out the error was neither rude nor 'un-Scout-like'.

 

Guess what? I never make the mistake to use the term GSA. I know the correct term is GSUSA, and that's what I use. End of story.

 

 

 

[packsaddle 753]

I'll make one more observation and then go camping. There is a correct terminology. I probably don't know all of it. I do make an analogy to grammar. In these threads as in life, few of us use perfect grammar. If someone gets bent out of shape because of it, I hope their concern is because of difficulty in understanding an idea, rather than simple subject-verb agreement. It is, after all, about communication.

Later

[scoutldr 732]

'Tis but thy name that is my enemy;

Thou art thyself, though not a Montague.

What's Montague? it is nor hand, nor foot,

Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part

Belonging to a man. O, be some other name!

What's in a name? that which we call a rose

By any other name would smell as sweet;

So Romeo would, were he not Romeo call'd,

Retain that dear perfection which he owes

Without that title. Romeo, doff thy name,

And for that name which is no part of thee

Take all myself.

 

[SSScout 1615]

" Twas brillig and the slithy toves...

 

...and the mome raths outgrabe!"

 

I do love classic literature. Especially when it fits!

 

Seriously, One's proper name is always appropriate. Preciseness of language is something my son and I always seem to discuss ("well, you know what I mean!" "Maybe, but the next fellow might not.")

What kind of apple? they all taste different. All make good pies, but some make'm better!

 

YiS because(This message has been edited by SSScout)

[AvidSM 11]

"Cubs" and "scouts" are unofficial shortened versions of Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts. We use them because we are lazy. Since most volunteers understand what "cubs and scouts" means, we keep using them. I don't think they imply that cub is not a member of the BSA or that a scout is not a boy. (I tend to use the shortened versions when amongst other scouters and the offical terms when I am not).

 

As for Venturing, how may troops can claim they have a venture patrol? When I hear "venture" or "venturing" my automatic assumption is that you are talking about a Crew, not a Patrol in a Troop. Yes, it's important to call something by it's correct name. I know some crew leaders who will correct you every time if you call them a "venture crew".

 

Again, it all depends on who you are talking to. Say "USA" to someone in the military and they'll assume your referring to the "United States Army". That country between Canada and Mexico is "The United States" to them (or CONUS if you want the actual term). The people who live there are "United States Citizens", not "Americans".

[Eamonn 61]

"The people who live there are "United States Citizens", not "Americans". "

Not all of them!!

Eamonn.