When a scout turns 18...

[EagleInKY 14]

Beavah - Yeah, the rules are a little convoluted (can do it as a venturer but not a scout) and all. However, I beg to differ with your thought that it's no big deal for an 18 YO (FORMER BOY SCOUT) to tent with his 17 year old buddy. You've left yourself wide open for problems if it turned out something was going on there. The scout needs to understand that he's reached another stage in life, and that there are adjustments we must make.

[Eamonn 61]

My little darling turned 18 this past July.

From when he was about 16 he was very much a cafeteria Scout.

The Troop he was in had tweaked the program so much that at times I wasn't sure if they really were part of the BSA!!

After serving twice as a staffer on JLTC,he seen that the Troop was little more than a Eagle mill. Like Her Who Must Be Obeyed he is mule headed and very strong willed.( Unlike his easy going lovable Dad!!) The Troop not doing things the way that he thought was right turned him off Troop Scouting. Scouts not earning ranks and just having them handed to them, turned him against advancement and for a long time against becoming an Eagle Scout.

He was/is very active in the OA. He enjoys working at summer camp.

But he got out of the habit of attending Scout meetings and when he did attend there was very little for him to do, other than stand around and talk to who ever else was standing around doing nothing.

He is a member of the Ship, but is busy working, and is involved in a lot of after school activities, so he tends to miss a lot of what is going on.

A couple of months back he came to me and said that he was thinking of signing on as an ASM in a Troop in the community next to ours.

The Troop is where his Lodge Adviser was SM and where one of his OA friends is an ASM.

All through his Boy Scouting career, I have done my best to let him do what he thinks is for the best. He choose which Troop he wanted to join. He did what he thought was right.

When he asked me about becoming an ASM,I asked him why?

He gave me a long list of what was wrong with the Troop he had been in! But no reason why he should join a new Troop.

So I asked him what would he bring to a Troop?

When he thought about it, he admitted that he wasn't skilled enough to bring very much to any Troop and would in fact end up standing around at the back of the hall talking to any one who wasn't doing anything.

In the end we decided that the best thing would be for him to just be a Sea Scout and spend some time improving his skills.

I have never really been able to work out why if the OA is a Boy Scout program it doesn't follow the Boy Scout age groups?

This time next year he will be away at college and the time he would have to devote to being a ASM wouldn't be that much. I'm not sure if I was the SM that I'd really want him hanging around. But that would be up to the nominating committee, the CC and the COR.

Eamonn.

[Laure 10]

Thanks for all the great advice! This forum is an amazing resource - I've been recommending it to the other leaders I work with for some time now.

 

I'll talk to the scout the next time we see him. It will be an easier conversation to have now that I know what the options are to offer him. There are nearby venturing crews, and I think that's a better fit for him than leadership right now, but it will really be up to the boy. (Excuse me...the man, I suppose.) I just feel a need to make it clear to him that now that he is legally an adult, the troop needs to consider him one, as well. Our CO has Youth Protection rules above and beyond BSA's, and we could be in further hot water with them if we are violating them.

 

By the way, those of you who said he could be an ASM, is that technically a JASM, or a regular ASM? We previously had a young leader in the troop who was a JASM, supposedly because he was under 21. Is there another difference? Thanks!

[EagleInKY 14]

It's a true ASM. JASM is a youth role.

 

So, he would qualify as the 2nd adult on a campout. (One adult must be at least 21).

[scoutingagain 20]

I've been following this thread for a while and find myself in agreement with Eagle in KY. Scouting is a program for boys up to the age of 18. At 18 the boy becomes an adult in the eyes of the Boy Scout program. At our council camp, youth staff that turn 18 during their tenure at camp are literally marched out of the youth quarters, and are assigned to the adult staff area. Actually they make a neat ceremony out of it. But it makes it clear to the 18 year old he is no longer a Boy Scout, but an adult leader in scouting.

 

To answer your question Laure, JASM is a youth position. The only position an 18 year old can hold in a Boy Scout Troop is that of ASM. And with all ASM's, their responsibility is to support the program for the youth members of the unit under the direction of the SM. The SM needs to consider the maturity and capabilities of the ASMs working with him when considering assignments. An 18 yo ASM shouldn't be expected to perform at the same adult leadership capacity as a 50yo ASM with 30 years of adult leadership experience. But that 18yo might be in better physical shape to be able to shadow a group of energetic young scouts up a mountainside.

 

SA

[emb021 16]

As to the tenting issue, I can only add this.

 

At the National OA Conference, people are housed in one of 4 groups (and bathroom/showers marked as such):

 

* Under 18 boys

* Boys 18-21

* Adult males (ie, over 21)

* Adult females

 

 

[AirForceMom 0]

Hello. I understand your concerns however as a mother of a boy that has been this troop for many years.  He just turned 18 and is still in high school.  It is true if he joins as an adult he cannot socialize outside of the scout meetings, text, play video games, etc.  This doesn't make any sense to me. Is this true?  

When I called my council they said the position is college reservist and he can do everything a regular scout can do (except badges) and has to do the online training.  No one mentioned that anything about not being able to socialize outside of scouts. He goes to school with these boys.  

Thank you

[RememberSchiff 3663]

@AirForceMom welcome to scouter.com.

 

[dk516 29]

58 minutes ago, AirForceMom said:

When I called my council they said the position is college reservist and he can do everything a regular scout can do (except badges) and has to do the online training.  No one mentioned that anything about not being able to socialize outside of scouts. He goes to school with these boys. 

@AirForceMom welcome to the forum. Your Council may have not given you the full answer to this. The BSA YPT FAQ notes the following:

https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/yp-faqs/

In Scouts BSA, he will be fully considered an adult and what he "can do" is attend Scouts BSA events as an adult. As noted above, participation in the programs that allow for older Youth to participate, he can fully participate, however, he is still considered and adult. And yes, if you want to take YPT by the book, he would no longer be allowed any socialization with any other scouts younger than 18 without having a second adult present. 

This one single thing is the biggest inhibitor I have seen in our Troop for Scouts to continue participate in the program once they reach 18. I have only ever seen Scouts coming back a couple years later during college once their full cohort has aged out because it just causes too much awkwardness having to follow YPT correctly and being considered an adult from one day to the next.

 

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

@AirForceMom as @dk516shows, the 18+ folks not having social contact outside of Scouting is in the YPT rules, and expanded upon in the FAQs. I cannot tell you how many 18-20 year olds, including 2 of my sons, completely quit Scouting because they refuse to give up their under 18 friends. It really sucks for them, and I do not blame them at all.

[scoutldr 726]

Once again, I find myself reading a 16 year old thread and a lot has changed since then.  Caveat to those reading...a lot has changed in the YPT world.  So, other than, "he is no longer a Scout and the only thing he can register as is an adult ASM", ignore the rest of the thread.  Especially the part about unregistered parents camping with the troop.  

That being said, "Welcome to the forums!"

[acco40 95]

Slow down everyone.  Youth protection rules, per the Guide to Safe Scouting, only apply to Scouting activities.  For example, if your 18 year old son is a phenomenal guitar play and wants to to give guitar lessons to a 15 year old - no issue.  One on one contact is allowed.  If however, your same son wants to be a merit badge counselor for the music merit badge, Guide to Safe Scouting rules apply - no one on one contact with minors (unless it is your own son or daughter).

Now I'm not saying it's a good idea to ignore those rules outside of Scouting events but they don't apply outside of scouting events.

Edited January 19 by acco40

[HashTagScouts 435]

5 minutes ago, acco40 said:

Slow down everyone.  Youth protection rules, per the Guide to Safe Scouting, only apply to Scouting activities.  For example, if your 18 year old son is a phenomenal guitar play and wants to to give guitar lessons to a 15 year old - no issue.  One on one contact is allowed.  If however, your same son want to be a merit badge counselor fort he music merit badge, Guide to Safe Scouting rules apply.

Now I'm not saying it's a good idea to ignore those rules outside of Scouting events but they don't apply outside of scouting events.

Unless that individual is getting paid to give those lessons, then the Barriers to Abuse policy would disagree:

Youth Protection and Barriers to Abuse FAQs | Boy Scouts of America (scouting.org)

Q. The Barriers to Abuse states “One-on-one contact between adult leaders and youth members is prohibited both inside and outside of Scouting.” What does ‘inside and outside of Scouting’ mean?
A. The BSA has adopted its youth protection policies for the safety and well-being of its members. These policies primarily protect youth members; however, they also serve to protect adult leaders. All parents and caregivers should understand that our leaders are to abide by these safeguards. Registered leaders must follow these guidelines with all Scouting youth outside of Scouting activities. There are careers that may require one-on-one contact with youth, however aside from those roles, volunteers must abide by the youth protection policies of the BSA even outside of Scouting activities.

This policy is in place to prevent abuse in and out of Scouting.   Adults should never be alone with youth who are not their children.

[acco40 95]

That's hazy to me.  "There are careers" - does that imply a paid position?  Does that imply a full-time position?  Does that imply a paid position for significant period of time?

At one time, Boy Scouts could go on overnight camping trips with no adult supervision present (if a patrol outing and approved by the Scoutmaster to make sure it was a well planned out event).  That's no longer allowed.  Partly due to lowering expectations of our youth and more due to the allowing of female scouts.  

I'll admit, I haven't been actively involved with Scouting for a decade or more but I always told Scouters to look at youth protection rules as something to protect them (it was an easier sell and made them less defensive). 

Look at this from an extreme.  You're home alone and a couple of girl scouts ring your doorbell in an attempt to sell you cookies.  Are you saying the BSA doesn't allow you to answer the door? 

[acco40 95]

Another issue/question: Private online communications (texting, phone calls, chat, IM, etc.) must include another registered leader or parent.

So when a Scoutmaster, alone at home, receives a telephone call from the SPL, with his younger PL brother, the Scoutmaster can't take the call?

Obviously, these "rules" appear to be written by lawyers and not driven by common sense.