How trained/skilled should a Scoutmaster be?

[gwd-scouter 11]

There are a lot of different troops out there. I've read posts here about troops that have a very active high-adventure program.

 

My question, is how can a troop accomplish a decent high adventure program, or at least a more challenging program for the older scouts, when the adult leaders do not have the skills and training (or equipment for that matter) for such.

 

For instance, I've recently posted a question about cave exploration in the Southeast. Boys have asked if they could do it. I've read the G2SS and know that our adult leadership is not prepared for the kind of cave diving these guys were asking about - as I've learned just from that post, I think these guys are looking for more vertical caves.

 

Rock climbing and rapelling are also areas in which we do not have the equipment. Myself and my husband have taken climb of safely and I have taken a class at the local rock climbing facility, but we are still obviously not prepared to take our troop rock climbing.

 

About the best high adventure we can do in our troop are water activities and backpacking. Both husband and I are avid white water enthusiasts and very strong swimmers, take safe swim/safety afloat every year and CPR every year. He and I, along with another ASM, are into backpacking and consider ourselves competent to handle a weekend in the wilderness - the other ASM is an AVID backpacker, working his way to finishing the AT. He has been a huge bonus to our troop since he joined us last year.

 

So, this past year we have been able to offer the guys more than they've had in the past.

 

But, I really want us to have a program that offers more fun and challenge to the older guys in our troop, I just don't know how skilled or trained we have to be to provide it.

 

How do you guys manage?

 

 

 

 

[Dizzy ona cliff 11]

I am afraid to look down the cliff, and claustrophobic in confined spaces. Backpacking & water activities are good enough for me. Work with what you have and keep your ears peeled for those with good knowledge and experience that would be able to guide your troop.

Jeff

[GernBlansten 10]

Not sure what you mean here? Are you talking about running your own high adventures or going to an established camp? If you are trying your own, then you need expertise. But if using an established operation, just meet the requirements and have fun.

 

Now if you are just talking about some programs for the older scouts, I'd keep with the commercial operations. Climbing, caving, whitewater, etc. all have professional guides who can take the scouts and adults safely and withing G2SS guidelines.

 

We sent three crews down to Sea Base last year. None of the adults had any sailing experience. Just passed the required swim tests and safety afloat. All came back with great reviews. I have my captains license on sailboats and have spent 25 years sailing. I have no desire to go to Sea Base since our family does a trip every year on our own and I'd rather use my high adventure coupons for other trips. But the lack of experience from the other adults certainly didn't stop them.

 

This summer, we went to Canoe Base. I've done lots of camping and backpacking but never trekking in canoes. Found the experience wonderful. Nobody in our troop was an accomplished canoeist. By the end of the trip, my J stroke was nearly perfected! I certainly wouldn't steer anyone away from the trip because they aren't experts in canoes.

 

Just my two cents.

[orennoah 11]

You don't have to be Super-Explorer Guy (or Gal) to be Scoutmaster or even a great Scoutmaster. Rely upon others for the expertise you lack and can't acquire.

 

In your case, see if you can find a Venture Crew in your area that is doing the sorts of things that your older Scouts want to do. Hook up with them and see if you can do a joint activity. Similarly, there may be a Scout Troop in your area that has the necessary resources.

 

- Oren

[Beavah 205]

Yah, this is an interestin' challenge, eh? Especially since the sights of the kids have gotten a lot higher in the last 20 years or so, with more technical adventure sports out there and more TV to bring it to 'em.

 

Begin with your strengths. If you've got solid whitewater skills, encourage the kids to plan a whitewater superadventure. Find an outfitter or two that will offer kayak clinics, rafting, and canoeing. Then use your internal expertise to manage the preparation trips. Shoot for a two-weeker with days off to do side trips that might turn into other adventures in the coming years. Many eastern WW outfitters, for example, will also offer some climbing or mountain biking. That will give you and the boys ideas for the future.

 

In areas where you aren't competent to guide, use others. Find an outfitter for the superadventure who will start you "from scratch." Or, alternately, find a local V-crew or other local resource to help you with prep trips, so that you can "jump in" with an outfitter at a slightly higher level.

 

Be humble. Recognize that if you do this well, the kids are going to kick your behind in most of these activities. That's what you want to happen. After their superadventure, use them as instructors and leaders for related troop trips. This will cement their skills, and begin building a stronger troop program that will lead to more adventures down the road.

 

Finally, get trainin', for you and for your key youth leaders. Not da BSA silliness, eh? Climb on Safely is useless. Go invest in a Wilderness First Responder course, go take a 7-day whitewater kayak clinic on your own, hook up with the local university climbing club and get real instruction. Be a good example to the kids of how even adults need to take classes and work hard to learn new things, but that it's fun.

 

You're thinkin' right about this. Using canned package deals like SeaBase is good, but buildin' your own program from that beginning is better. It's buildin' experience in boys rather than havin' experiences.

[Eamonn 61]

I used to try and be a Jack of all trades.

At the time I was fortunate enough to belong to a unit that had tons of money.

Sadly I now find that a lot has changed equipment is far better, but not the stuff I used to use and I have started to find out that I'm a lot different then I was 20 years ago.

Most times I'm happy to introduce the Scouts I serve to a new activity.

We are lucky in our area we have a lot of adventurous activities for the Scouts to try.

I also know a lot of people who seem to specialize in doing what they do.

Once I have introduced the Scouts to something I'm happy to help them pursue it further.

We have taken Scouts caving and because I knew the guide he kicked it up a notch, but didn't go over the top. At the end of the day one Scout was offered a job at the caves.

This past summer we went Sea Kayaking, next summer one of the Scouts is returning to the camp as a Sea Pup.

I find that while I can still manage the activities I do at times hold the Scouts back. Keeping up with 16-18 year olds is hard and when I'm done I hurt for about a week.

If you can find a good Silver Horn course that is being held in your area I think you might find some good resources.

I do think it's important that you find a local course. We had a group of guys travel to Cleveland Ohio for the course, they all had a great time, but all the resources they found out about were in that area, while not the other end of the world, it's still a long way from home.

The Venturing Handbook has a list of different organizations that you might want to contact.

Right now I see myself as more of a facilitator, I tend to try and point the Scouts in the right direction and have them find out the details, report back what they have found and we take it from there.

Very often all they need from me is my driving and at times use of a credit card to make the booking.

I see my role as a youth leader not an expert in everything.

I do try and make sure I know the basics and I follow up doing the stuff that is of interest to me, if they want to tag along that is up to them.

Right now they want to do Scuba. I found the contact, helped set it up and I'm willing to provide transportation, I don't have any real need or interest in becoming certified in Scuba, but I'm happy to help them do what they want to do.

On the other hand some of them want to work on the Ranger Award, I want to try and make sure we cover the core requirements, so I'm taking the LNT Instructor course, a couple of Scouts said that they were interested so they are also attending.

Eamonn.

[scoutingagain 20]

As others have noted, one doesn't need to be an all world outdoors person to be an effective adult scout leader. The boys in our unit have been backpacking, white water rafting and climbing. While we are quite comfortable with the level of expertise within our unit for backpacking trips, for the whitewater and climbing activities we used the services of a qualified outfitter. Great times were had by all those who attended.

 

For whitewater trips there are usually plenty of qualified outfitters on any given river. Ask at roundtable and you can usually get some good recommendations. For climbing we used the services of a local mountaineering shop that provided lessons and guided climbs. Most will give a discount for scout groups.

 

SA

[Eagledad 2778]

I think our troop is above average in high adventure. When I look at all the adults involved in the past, I would say just about all of them had little or no experience starting out. When we wanted to do a trek, we went on an established trek or found an adult who trained us. Ask other Troops if your scouts can go along on a trek or arrange a trek with another Troop that may have the experience. The adults are out there, you just need to find them. I am no longer active in my troop, but I have been asked to train and lead a trek to the Northern Tier next summer. I'm going to ask the guy the trained me if he wants to lead a second crew as well. The adults who go along will be the leaders for the next crews.

 

Barry

 

[gwd-scouter 11]

Thank you folks for your words of advice and encouragement.

 

I've always had a nagging feeling that our Troop was somehow being done a disservice because 1) we have a girl Scoutmaster (yeah, me, you guessed it) and 2) I thought every troop is supposed to have an abundance of highly skilled, highly trained adult leaders. You know - superscoutmaster - able to leap tall buildings in a single bound!

 

Our Scouts had their planning campout last weekend and have added a few new ideas for campouts such as snow skiing/snow boarding (my husband and I are actually quite proficient at skiing, never tried boarding) and spelunking (already got some great advice and ideas for this from another thread).

 

They have also planned a wilderness campout/canoe trek at Lake Jocassee. Water activities are also within the realm of our experience and training.

 

But, they also want to do some rock climbing/rapelling or some kind of high-adventure ropes course. Our adult leadership is in no way able to handle this on our own so we will seek an outfitter. Of course, when the time gets a bit closer for this event I'll probably seek the advice of the forum members.

 

Once again, thanks for your help.

 

 

[Scouter&mom 10]

Gwd-Scouter,

I am not sure where your request for caving info in SE was, but a thought is the overnight program at the Lost Sea in TN. Don't know all the details, but my daughter's GS troop (a real outdoor troop) did an overnight caving and camp there. The adults were not experienced cavers but the leader said the program provided by the Lost Sea took them way back into generally non-public areas (non-electrified. They carried everything in to camp overnight way back in the caves. All had a great time.

 

And yes, take advantage of the professional outfitters in the SE, we have some outstanding ones around. Look for ads in magazines like Outdoor Life or Backpacker, you will find a wider geographic variety than in the Scout oriented magazines.

[ASM915 90]

gwd,

Just found your Sept. 2006 threads.

If you know someone in your area/town with a specific talent/skill within the high adventure realm, ask them to join your troop committee. Our troop is 95% Catholic scouts sponsored by the VFW. I just asked the Methodist minister to join the committee. He's an avid canoer/kayaker, teaches for ACA and ARC and is a former SM from one of his previous churches. He has excepted. Also have an aquaintance in the Hilton Head area that runs a Sea Kayaking business and another good friend that runs a canoe livry in NW Pa. A few of the parents have boats.

 

Now I have Pastor Jim for Canoeing MB and Kayaking Cert. My 20 y/o (ASM) is a certified lifeguard and the former SM has some good Whitewater rafting background.

Our COR is an avid backpacker.

My 20y/o and I have the medical side of things tied down being EMT and Medic/Firefighters and hopefully plan on taking the Wilderness EMT Bridge program. Need an extra week and @ $700 though.

Climbing, we have a professional climbing facility in the area we hope to take advantage of this year.

 

I ask all new leaders to the troop to at least sit for the safety programs offered up at summercamp, Safe Swim, Saftey Afloat, Climb on

Safety, etc. That way at least everyone is certified. If they are interested in a particular subject after that, then I suggest additional private classes and training.

 

Spread the trainig around and surround yourself with trained people. You the SM shouldn't have to be an expert in every area. That is why we have ASM's and Committee Members. Delegate. Let one of them plan a trip around one of their strong points. Just make sure they know what they are doing. Ask for a resume of sorts, that you can go back and check out to make sure they really did take a climbing course and what the instructors take was one this person. Make copies and keep on file any certification cards that they may have. That way if a parent comes asking about qualifications, you can pull out the appropriate copy and let them see it.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Way back I heard an excellent quote about how a leader doesnt have to be proficient at every skill their company requires. It ran something along the lines of Lee Iacocca never bolted on a bumper, but he sure can run a car company.

 

There is a story about Albert Einstein, he was being interviewed and the reporter asked Mr Einstein if he knew his own phone number. Mr Einstein laughed and said, no, he didn't. The reporter then asked what the smartest man in the world would do if he needed to call home. Mr Einstein produced a local phone book and pointed out where his phone number was in the book. He then told the reporter, its not important to KNOW everything, its important to be able to find what you need when you want.

 

If you provide the program the kids want and fund, it doesnt matter if you do it all, all that matters is that you made it so.

 

The Venturing Program realizes this. The Venturing Program makes liberal use of "consultants", technically qualified experts who bring their expertise to the Crew. They arent registered, they help the Crew with an event or a series of events, no one can be all things to all people

[BrentAllen 10]

gwd,

The Troops here hire some guides out of Chattanooga for their rock climbing trips, especially over to Sand Rock, in eastern Alabama. The guides have all the equipment and expertise. Great climbing location.

 

Raccoon Mountain offers great caving trips. Boy Scout Troops go further back in the cave, spending the night pretty far back.

 

I think Eamonn means Powder Horn, not Silver Horn. Powder Horn is training for Scouters who want to put together High Adventure trips. From our Council web page:

"Powder Horn is a training opportunity designed to expose Venturing Leaders, Boys Scout Leaders or Cub Scout Leaders to activities and resources necessary to operate a successful Venturing Ranger or Troop High Adventure Program. Powder Horn is conducted over two (3-day) weekends. The dates are May 4-6 and May 18 - 20, 2007.

 

Check out http://www.powderhorn-bsa.org/ for more info.

 

Have you checked out the Council High Adventure page? http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/directory/

There is a rock climbing and rapelling High Adventure Camp here in north Georgia, run by the Army Rangers on Mt. Yonah, where they train the Rangers. Unfortunately it is only offered one week a year, in June, I think.