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ATCprofesr

Tenure based on Board of Review

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Tenure for the next rank does not start until the previous rank has been earned. The previous rank is not earned until all the requirements have been completed. The board of review is a requirement, thus the rank is not earned and new tenure does not start until the BOR is completed.

 

There is no reason the boy cannot begin work on requirements for the next rank. Requirements for all ranks may be worked on simultaneously, but the ranks must be completed in sequence, with the required tenure at each rank.

 

In your hypothetical example, if boards are scheduled quarterly and the next board is 3 months away, the boy must have missed the last one by 1 day. Sounds more like the committee schedules only 2 or 3 boards per year.

 

3 months is a loooong time for a boy to wait. Good way to kill his enthusiasm for advancement. Same goes for presentation of awards and courts of honor.

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::"If the scout completes his Star Rank BOR on Jan 1, 2006, the tenure for his Life Rank can follow consecutively and begin on July 1, 2006, even if he has not been afforded the opportunity of a BOR? And subsequently would the same follow with Life to Eagle, regarding tenure?"::

 

If the Scout completes (and completion includes passing the BOR, he can't just have a BOR, he has to pass it too) his Star rank BOR on January 1, he can have his Life rank BOR on July 1 (and no earlier) provided he has met all the other requirements. Same holds true for Eagle - in this example, provided he has met all the other requirements, he could have his Eagle BOR on January 1 (or later - no earlier) of the next year.

 

I'm going to join the Kibbitzer's here - not to criticize, but to suggest that monthly BOR opportunities make more sense than quarterly from the perspective of providing the program to the lad (and as I've always said, there is nothing the unit does that is more important than providing the program). For the higher ranks (Star and Life), an "on demand" BOR wouldn't seem out of line. This is one of those chances for the Scoutmaster to do one of his most important jobs - be an advocate for the lads - if the boy is ready, the Scoutmaster should be calling the Advancement Committee Chair before the SM conference and ask if a BOR could be arranged in a week or two if the lad is ready (one or two weeks notice seems rather fair to me). The way I figure it, if a District can pull together an Eagle Board of Review in two weeks or less, then surely a Scout Troop can do so.

 

CalicoPenn

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Our district does Eagle boards of review once a month. But our troop does boards of review on demand. We pretty much have three committee members available every troop meeting - if not hanging around the back room, at least they check in when they drop their son off.

 

But I have known troops where the committee were church members who didn't have boys in the troop, and the two or three dads who were involved were the Scoutmaster and assistants. In that case, it does seem hard to imagine them doing BoRs on demand, but it would certainly seem like they could do it once a month at worst. ScoutNut's quote would indicate that while not ideal, it's certainly permissible to have them quarterly, so I wouldn't try to go throw policy at the committee. I'd just ask them if they realize what effect the delay has on the boy's enthusiasm for the program.

 

And Beavah, as far as being armchair kibitzers, isn't that pretty much the definition of a forum participant?

 

Oak Tree

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Tenure based on Board of Review is true...It is the responsibility of the Scoutmaster to insure the program is running and being delivered. In this situation I beleive the SM may be not up holding his position. Hypothetically...the SM should advise the advancement chairman that it is their responsibility to keep current with all scouts advancing. If the need to hold a BOR every month is there... then conduct it...if the need to have one two weeks later then cunduct one.

 

Just how hard is it really? 3 members of the troop (Adults) can make the BOR. Have questions on file for those who have never sat.

 

Hypothetically...this sounds like the BOR is conducted when it is good for the adults not the scout.

 

Remember too: PLAN, PRACTICE, BE PREPARED

 

[edited by Eagle Foot]

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Do you know any of us personally, or what our level of involvement in the program might be?

 

Nah, I know you only by your statements on this forum. But I do know from those that your involvement in the program that we are discussing (this troop that runs quarterly BOR's) is nil. Ya don't know their SM, ya don't know their committee, ya don't know their Chartered Org. or parents or kids or community. They might be the most active, highest retention program in their state for all you know.

 

Yet, despite that, forum members choose to "wind up" a disgruntled parent and send him back to make trouble in this unit by pontificating:

 

They are NOT helping the BOYS or the Troop

 

This will certainly kill a boy's enthusiasm for the program

 

any Troop that cannot coordinate a BOR almost "on demand" has its adult leaders' heads where the sun does not shine.

 

Call your District Advancement Chair.... Call your District Commissioner... Find another troop in a big hurry.

 

You bet I'm offerin' criticism of this approach. I find it destructive and profoundly discourteous to fellow volunteers.

 

Like I said, the troop I work with does BOR's on demand. There are downsides to that. I can see quarterly BOR's being a fine tool. Not having "instant gratification" all the time seems a reasonable thing if our goal is teaching character. But I expect what really happens in such an environment is that the presence of the quarterly BOR's pushes kids along to "get done" before the next BOR round. "I gotta finish this month to make the September BOR." Thus such a system provides a bit of natural "deadline push" to help kids. One could also set it up for a COH on the same night, really making a "troop event" out of it that makes the committee and CO feel like an integral part of the program. Would we choose to do it that way? Probably not, but that doesn't mean it's evil.

 

Of course, a wise SM might also be using this "scheduling delay" to work with a boy on a behavior issue, or helping him succeed at his POR, or just to take a break and have fun learning from the other seven methods of Scouting.

 

Listen to and learn from others before offering criticism, or suggesting a program should be reported or dismantled.

 

ATCprofesr, I don't think charging off at volunteers armed with obscure BSA document quotations is a way to do anything but harm. I'd follow your son's lead. If he's OK with it, be OK with it. If not, might I suggest instead that you have your son ask the PLC to consider proposing to the SM/committee a schedule with more frequent BOR's? You might find that the kids like the current system. You might find that the committee is willing to entertain the request. Or the answer might be "No, because..." and you'll learn something even if you don't agree... and your idea might percolate around and make a change down the road. Whatever the outcome, you will have supported the system and the good men and women who are providing a program for your child, out of their kindness and generosity.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

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Gee, I think if we all had to wait for perfect information before making a comment, there would not be much commenting made here. By the very nature of these internet forums, comments made must be based on the information that is presented. Thus, it seems unreasonable to chastise comment makers from making their views known in an environment of less than perfect knowledge.

 

In light of that, my comment is that if the troop committee arranges it's affairs such that a boy must wait 3 months for a BOR, the aims and methods of Scouting are not being met in a satisfactory manner, despite whatever kindness and generosity they may aspire to. If that is taken as a personal assault, let the evidence speak for itself.

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Greetings all. The troop I serve in is able to come up with a BoR "on demand" and does pride itself in being able to do so under any circumstance.

We have normally taken advantage of using our troop committee members as they tend to hang around during the weekly troop meeting. this works very well and has the beneficial side effect of drawing our committee member/parents into taking an active part in troop function.

We have just this month taken in 4 new scouts who crossed over from Webelos, who having earned the Scout rank will be recognized at a CoH at the end of the month. Also, to be recognized are the new scouts parents. We do this by presenting to one (or both) the scouts parents a new troop committee insignia. We then tell them its up to them to get the shirt it goes on and if they get the shirt to please take time and fill out an adult leader application. We waive the adult leader fee for new scout parents. We have had good results from this approach as we are never at a loss for parent support in our troops activities and projects.

Our troop committee is also looking forward to taking the troop committee challenge to further their ability to serve our scouts as best as is possible.

Just as an example of a BoR on demand, a BoR was assembled in less than 20 minutes at last years scout-o-rama for a star scout candidate. The board was composed of the COR of our troop, the CC of one of our neighboring troops, and the councils district commissioner. The scout passed the board and noted they were very thorough in the material covered. The board members noted that the scout was well prepared and ready to be advanced. we advanced the scout immedietly following the board in an informal troop ceremony. The scout who was advanced as well as the rest of our scouts thought it was "way cool" to get the BoR and advancement done when the opportunity was availible.

I'm sure some who post here may find a flaw with what our troop did, but I feel that we do a good job with our scouts and their parents.

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Just as a point of information, our troop does Boards of Review pretty much on demand. If the adults are available, and the Scout is willing to approach the available adults to ask them to serve, then it gets done. In our troop's mode of operation, we consider that to be not only advancing the Aim of advancement but also that of adult association in that the scout has to set up his own BofR.

 

Now, if we just didn't have so many qualified adults associated with the troop as MB counselors...

 

Vicki

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Only board of mine that wasn't on-demand was my Eagle board, and that was because it took 3 months after the scoutmaster conference for the troop to finish getting all the paperwork and such filed with district and processed. Other than that, it's really not that hard if you have the people available, no? Even if you can't do it right away, it's generally not too hard to call people up to see about setting up a board for the following week's meeting.

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3 months is 2.5 months to long to have to wait for a BOR. When we have a boy do his SMC on Monday night then the next Monday night is his BOR. All we have to do it let our CC know that we have a boy ready and the next week we have at least 3 adults there. In fact we have even has BOR on the same night that SMC was done.

After the BOR the SPL presents the boys to the troop as our new ______. Then the next week he receives the patch for Rank. THen at our next COH he receives the card for Rank.

Boys need to be recongised immediately for any advancement.

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This thread brought back a question concerning SCOUT NET an how it counts dates. We now need specific dates for advancement, Jan 2006 doesn't cut it, it must be MM/DD/YY. How does this apply to the Jan 1 to July 1 equalls six months concept. What I heard when records were being transfered into the net was that six months equals 182 days. So Jan 1 to July 1 would actually be one day short. The date of the BOR would have to be July 2. Starting with Feb 1 results in Aug 3 as the first possible date. Now I have not seen this in print from National and I know we all have our positions of how we think it should be but does anyone know for a fact how SCOUT NET determines six months.

LongHaul

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As has already been laid out, the BOR is the last requirement in the advancement process, so the statement is correct that tenure is counted from that point.

 

However, I too have problems with a troop that only schedules quarterly BORs. We do BORs "on demand" as well. Typically I'll tell the Advancement Chairman that we'll need a BOR the following troop meeting. I'll tell him the rank(s) and the scout(s) so he can make sure to have the right makeup (no parents, etc.).

 

Additionally, at our monthly committee meeting I'll give them a heads up on potential BORs. Of course, much of that is depending upon the scouts actually finishing their work. But when you see a lad getting down to one or two requirements you generally have a feeling about how long it's going to take them to wrap them up.

 

Funny, these guys think they need so much time to pull a BOR together. Our AC forgot about setting up a BOR a few weeks ago. It was an honest mistake, these things happen. He walked in before the troop meeting with intentions of dropping his son off and heading home. I handed him the paperwork from Troopmaster for the BOR. He had a stunned look on his face. He "captured" a committee member that was about to leave and called another at home and set up the BOR on the spot. Ten minutes later they were starting the BOR. So the time requirement explanation for the quarterly BOR is not a valid excuse.

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He "captured" a committee member that was about to leave and called another at home and set up the BOR on the spot. Ten minutes later they were starting the BOR. So the time requirement explanation for the quarterly BOR is not a valid excuse.

 

Yah, for your troop, eh? It's important to remember that not everyone is da same as you or me, so makin' judgments about what is and isn't valid for someone else is a dicey business.

 

Sounds like your committee has a lot of parents on it, so grabbing random committee members at a meeting is fairly easy. But there are units out there that have committees with no parents at all - just a few church elders, for example. Those committees have advantages over yours - much stronger ties to the CO, often less turnover and perhaps more training/experience, no hints of "favoritism" or people pushing an agenda for their own kid.

 

But they have disadvantages, too includin' the fact that pullin' a BOR together on-the-fly isn't done. And that's OK.

 

Our troop, like yours, is "on demand" - but I confess that sometimes the expectation that adults are going to drop everything to do something for a pushy boy or parent isn't teaching the lessons of courtesy I'd like to see. Most of the time boys are grateful for the efforts made on their behalf, but it bugs me a bit when they act like they are owed other people's time on demand. A unit that feels it's more important to teach kids to "plan ahead and prepare" rather than provide instant gratification might be doin' good work keepin' privileged kids from being spoiled brats.

 

O'course, maybe they're just interested in keepin' advancement down to it's rightful 1/8 of da program methods and time.

 

Each to his own.

 

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Beavah - I realize that a 10 minute preparation is not reasonable to expect, but it demonstrates that if the committee has its act together, it should be able to pull together a BOR in a reasonable amount of time. This particular case was because of an oversight by the AC. The lad had been waiting three weeks. He was scheduled for a BOR the week before, but was #4 of 4 scouts in line. They ran out of time and he got bumped a week. He knew that there was a possibility that it would happen and it did. We didn't want to see him get bumped again because of an adult mistake.

 

I know what you mean about impatient kids and parents (more often it's the parents). We try to schedule the BOR within 1-2 weeks of the boy completing the requirements. I have had parents complain and I have to explain the "it's a journey not a race" philosophy again.

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We also do BORs on demand, and little preparation is needed because the committee members who are typically there know the boys very well. I can understand that it might be more difficult if the committee members are not typically present at meetings--my suggestion for that problem would be to get some more parents to be committee members. Even so, three months is a long time.

Another observation--note that there is no hint that this is a factor in the troop ATC wrote about--but I am aware of troops that do only quarterly BORs and typically retest scout skills, frequently "failing" scouts who can't perform up to their standards. These scouts then must wait three months to try again. I think this a a poor way to run the advancement program, and it's not what BSA's policies envision. Such troops may have many other virtures that keep boys in them, of course.

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