Push Ups

[Bob White 20]

Excecise should be promoted to scouts as part of a healthy lifesty;e not as a punishment. It ereally doesn'y matter that the military uses it as a punishment, they have a different goal, purpose and methods than scouting has. Scout leaders need to realize which program they are in.

 

 

[CMpack58 10]

 

First off- as the originator of this thread I wanted to say thanks. I printed it out and provided it to the SM. I wanted to report back to all who have posted on the thread that last night at our Troop committee meeting we voted to stop the pushups. It was a very difficult discussion. The meeting included Our SPL and PLs. We had lots of discussion about who could give pushups or not give pushups. We spoke when pushups had a positive and/or negative affect. Finally people started to realize that the pushups may provide an immediate recognition that they did something wrong, but it did not have long term results. Scouts still came without a complete uniform, because they didnt care if they received push ups. Now we are going to adopt a set of rules that will be followed. (IE) No uniform 1st offense PL talks to Scout, 2nd Offense SPL talk to Scout, 3rd Offense ASM talks to Scout.

If anyone has a set like this, please forward to me.(CMpack58@yahoo.com) Also we recognized we need to train our youth leaders better within the Troop.

 

Bart

 

[johndaigler 10]

CMPack58,

 

I like that you're attempting a new approach, but here are a few questions to think about as you try it out.

 

What is the SPL going to add that the PL didn't already say?

 

The ASM that the SPL didn't?

 

Is it possible that your system undermines the PL and the SPL, because the message you're sending is - "This gets serious after you've spoken to the PL and the SPL"?

 

What happens on the fourth offense?

 

Does your plan send the message that a Scout who doesn't wear his uniform must be doing so out of misunderstanding and they need to receive the uniform message time and again?

 

Again, I like that you're dedicated to a new plan, but I'm worried that you've put yourself in the situation of merely delaying a "consequence" to undesired behavior. It would be a shame if your Scouts learned that talking to the PL, SPL, and ASM was a bad thing.

 

I'm not an SM, but a Cub Scouter, so you might want to take my words with a grain of salt; but I am speaking from 20 years of high/middle school teaching and administrating. If your new plan fails to achieve your desired results (it certainly might work, you'll have to use it for a while to decide success/failure), then I'd suggest that you consider the following:

 

1st negative situation) Ignore it.

 

2nd negative situation) Discuss it with the PL, SPL, and ASM - with those three doing more listening than talking. The important point is why the Scout didn't wear the uniform, then helping the Scout see why the uniform is important - to the Scout, the other Scouts, the Leaders and the Troop as a Unit and member of Scouting worldwide.

 

3rd negative situation) Concrete consequences of the behavior: discussion with parents; Scouts out of uniform are good candidates for many messy undesirable jobs and clean-up; Scouts out of uniform are poor candidates for particpation in many Unit activities; Scouts out of uniform are poor candidates for Leadership roles (Patrol and Unit). You'll have to figure this list out for your own unique unit. BTW, step three should be a part of the step two discussion.

 

 

Also, it wouldn't hurt to celebrate the uniform with rewards for those Scouts who wear the Uniform consistently and/or those patrols who do so collectively.

 

Good Luck.

 

 

jd

 

 

[SeattlePioneer 144]

While I think there might be a role for "punishment" now and then, in my view one of the challenges in Scouting is finding ways to gain compliance with your program without using punishment.

 

Your troop may like to set a high standard in uniforming, but may find it difficult to get boys to go along with that standard. What to do?

 

Personally, I'd avoid punishing boys who didn't comply with uniforming standards. I'd be a lot more inclined to use other Scouting methods, such as being sure that adults were in uniform and that boy leaders were encouraged to set a good example.

 

Uniform inspections with prizes for the best patrol results would use the patrol method to encourage uniforming.

 

If boys are aware that uniforming is a condition of advancing in rank in order to meet participation requirements, advancement might be used to encourage uniforming.

 

It may be that adult and boy leaders will find that their ambitious standards are simply not shared by the boys in a troop Perhaps the views of the Scouts should be listened to.

 

 

 

Seattle Pioneer

 

 

[Gurnee Bruce 10]

This has been a fascinating read. Seems like there are a few cross-threads going on. My thoughts...

 

I believe that the pushups are simply a neanderthal, "knee jerk" reaction to a bad decision that a scout made.

 

I like the term "consequence" better than the term "punishment."

 

I challenge you to NOT take the easy way out (pushups) and instead to find a way to turn that bad decision into a learning experience. Otherwise the cycle will not be broken.

 

I reject the notion that since it was ok for us as kids that it's ok for our kids. Don't we want better for our sons and daughters than we had?

 

I haven't touched on BSA policy here - only what I believe to be common sense.

 

I guarantee you that the day I see my son doing pushups for some goof in the troop that decides to demonstrate his superiority will be the day that that either that goof or I leave the troop.

 

 

[SeattlePioneer 144]

Hello Gurnee--

 

As you'll see from my post just before yours, I'm not a big fan of disagreeable punishments either, although I think there might be a suitable role for them now and again. And other leaders may have different views that would use punishment more often than would I ---that's OK too, in my view.

 

But I don't agree with your statement that "it's my way or the highway," as a blanket approach either. To go back to the example I encountered at summer camp, I encountered a Scout I'd brought to camp being given pushups by a camp Merit Badge Counsellor after mouthing off. I raised no objection to that discipline, and indeed I supported the Merit Badge Counselor's authority in that instance.

 

What would you have done in that circumstance?

 

If you want to find a Troop that will guarantee you that your boy will never be asked to do pushups, help yourself. Personally, I think there are more important considerations when picking a Scout Troop.

 

These are all judgement calls and I'm not saying you are WRONG! Just that such issues seem more complex that black or white decisions.

 

I don't understand why it might not be instructive to do a few pushups after mouthing off to an instructor. Some boys might be missing a valuable experience.

 

 

 

Seattle Pioneer