The Self-Designated ASM

[SemperParatus 1]

So there's a dad in our troop that I really don't get along with real well - goes back to him demanding to sit in on his son's first board of review and kind of mouthing off about different things not being fair from the beginning. He has calmed down over the past two years or so, and we kind of just have a cordial (but definitely not close) relationship. He comes to about 1/3 of the committee meetings and really does not do too much, other than talk. In three years, he has made an appearance at about a dozen troop meetings and went on one overnight.

 

At the first meeting of the new year, I see him in our meeting room wearing his scout shirt (he was a asst. den leader before) and I notice an Assistant Scoutmaster patch on his sleeve. Funny thing is that I (SM) have never asked him to serve in this role and he has never approached me about serving in this role. I was always under the impression that the SM should determine who his assistants are - rather than people self-designating themselves to a position. We currently have a great SM staff of ten folks who get along very well and each have our own special areas. I really don't want or need a new ASM at this time and when I do, this dad is not near the top of the list.

 

I am not sure how I want to approach this yet. My first inclination is to ask him what's up. But, maybe I should wait for him to approach me. Or just ignore it altogether and see what happens (which may be much more enjoyable).

 

Your suggestions and insight are appreciated.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Not that it may matter, but has he filled out an application? Have you talked to the Committee Chair? Has the CO approved his application? With the required background check required of all new leaders, he cant just sew on a patch and appear in uniform, can he?

[fotoscout 15]

Self appointed is never an option. I think I would have a chat with your CC before even mentioning this to anyone else. There is also the question of his registration, what is he registered as?

 

 

[SemperParatus 1]

He is registered as a committee member on last year's charter. So, he has been approved by the Committee/CO for adult leadership. This year's recharter is due the end of the month.

 

I did talk to the CC, she just shook her head - joked that I guess he is 'now your problem' and laughed. It was left to me to handle this as I choose.

[Eagledad 2779]

Boy do I know how you feel. Is this causing any kind of a problem for the boys? Some hills just aren't worth dieing on.

 

By the way, what does he say when the CC hands out a free Committee Member patch to all her adults? (wink)(wink)

 

Barry

[SemperParatus 1]

I can't see how this will cause the boys any problem. For now, I don't think anyone else has noticed. The only boy that probably has any idea is his own son. I would think he said something to him about it. Now, eventually the boys and other adults will notice and I will be asked about it...by someone...sometime.

 

Hear are my choices, as I see them.

 

1. Don't say anything and see where it goes. It could be that nothing is ever said by either him or me and he walks around with the patch and is never asked to do anything (basically, no harm -no foul). Or, it might be taken that my silence is tacit approval and anybody can proclaim themselves to be an ASM which could lead to problems down the road like too many ASMs doing nothing and too few adults to sit on BORs or take on committee positions. Likewise, if I don't say anything - he may figure that he really is an ASM and start trying to act like one (which could be good or bad depending on what he thinks an ASM does). I will say that I am intrigued to find out where this could lead - it may prove very entertaining.

 

2. Wait for him to approach me. If I end up waiting too long then I fall into the troubles of 1 above. If he comes to me in the next month or so, then maybe we can have a reasonable conversation - but if its six months then I must either feign ignorance of the patch or possibly risk being construed as giving implied approval.

 

3. Address it now. I could simply say "NO" you are not an ASM and ask him to remove the patch. That kind of is not in my nature. Maybe, I congratulate him on making the commitment, tell him I wished he had talked to me first though, but since he is interested I am glad to line him up with training opportunities over the next four months (which should scare him off), and we could use a summer camp coordinator for next year (he would never go), and the equipment is getting kind of shabby (he would never clean anything), and little Johnny who needs lots of special attention could really use your special attention (the nail in the coffin) etc. etc.

[FScouter 24]

By wearing a uniform to a troop meeting, he has made the statement that he intends to be involved. You can't ignore that and hope nothing will develop. I'd talk to him in person at the next meeting and ask him directly what his desire is. Thank him for offering to be involved. I don't think it would be appropriate to tell him to take a hike, but do make it clear that assistant Scoutmasters are appointed by the Scoutmaster. Then appoint him to a specific duty or duties as you see fit. Training is part of the gig.

[Fuzzy Bear 12]

SP,

I like your third choice. It is a three pointer from half court delivered with a humorous spin. The entire situation is worth retelling and expanding on in written form. String enough of them together and you have SM Tales.

FB

[Eamonn 61]

I don't think doing nothing and hoping that everything will come out in the wash is an option. In my experience only bad things happen when you allow this sort of thing to happen.

We had a case last year where our District Commissioner was rushed to the hospital with a heart problem. One unit Commissioner, who was a real out and out twit took it on himself to E-mail everyone from the Council President down that he was the Deputy Assistant District Commissioner (Yes we had a laugh about his new job title.) and he would be taking over!! I of course E-mailed everyone to say that this wasn't the case and that the remainder of the key3 would look after things until the District Commissioner was back. Of course the Commissioner was not happy and it turns out that the wife of the District Commissioner was upset that I had acted in such a brash way.

You need to tell the CC that this is not your problem, you don't select or appoint leaders, you do recommend people, but the final word lies with the CO and the Committee. It is his (the CC) Problem and you expect him to deal with it as soon as possible. How he deals with it is up to him. Hopefully he will find a nice tactful way, but if he doesn't that is his problem not yours. You need to express this to him in clear terms and make sure that he understands. If he doesn't? Maybe you need to tell the CC that you are going to tell this person that before he can be a ASM he will need to be selected by the Troop Committee!! Yes it's passing the buck. But the buck is where it should be.

Eamonn.

[NorCal scout 10]

As a scout myself that has been SPL, I struggled with my assistants at times. Some scouts asked me for an ASPL position, but I felt they were not ready for it. I spoke with these individuals and we came to a conclusion. Unfortunately I did have a rather angry dad call me up demanding to know why his son was not an ASPL. I simply explained to him that his son needed more leadership experience and a willingness to jump headlong into tasks that need to be done without specific directions. I also had all the ASPL' needed. I did offer this scout a several different positions that would put him in a good place to show he is ready to be an ASPL. I would suggest the same thing for this Self-Designated ASM. Offer him a position that will give him an opportunity to show and share his skills. If he can successfully complete this job, than he deserves consideration for an ASM position, but only when one becomes available. Give him the opportunity to be involved. You would not want the scouts to exclude eachother.

 

I agree with FScouter. Talk to him at the next meeting and learn more about his intentions.

 

Always remember that the scouts are watching and act appropriately. Assume that they know more than you think about the adult politics, as a scout myself I know we do

 

[Spiney Norman 10]

Why not deputize one of your present ASM's to approach him. They could tactfully ask him when he was appointed to his position. The answer to that one should be interesting. He could also fill him in on all the enjoyable jobs thay had to do when they first became an ASM. This may work better than directly confronting as it sounds like that conversation may no go so well. Once you have some info as to his intentions you may actually be able to utilise his skills and abilities. Obviously by putting on the uniform he wants to help in some way.

[Hunt 11]

Another possible way to soften the approach would be to tell him that you really need him as a Committee Member, because ASM's can't sit on Boards of Review. He may not even know that.

[spinnaker 10]

Wow- I though our SM had a diffcult situaton last year. First is it really true that the SM appoints the ASM's ? That hasn't happened in our troop. I am only a commitee member and SM's wife. I wear a uniform to most meetings because of the commitment i have to scouting. I sometimes joke that I do some of the work of an ASM. But when asked to become one , I declined , I was needed for BOR's. . I camp with the troop when I'm needed for 2 deep and sometimes only cause I want to. i help out w/ fund raising, and service projects and sometimes come just to take pictures. If unofficiall SM dad really wants to wear a iuniform give his a MC patch and give his some special assignments - like the equipment or camping.

 

spinnaker

[anarchist 10]

SemperParatus,

 

I like the third option you noted...but maybe add this...

assumming the CC has not done paperwork on this 'volunteer', have the CC approach him, Adult Volunteer form inhand, with the 'gee wiz', we need you to fill these forms out for insurance purposes and charter reasons' line... at the same time give him a list of Council or district training events and ask which classes he can attend (soon). Then have the CC give him a list of jobs you need volunteers for... (and a job discription for each), and a list of the next three campouts on your annual plan and finish by asking him which ones he can help with! Use an 'assumptive close'...everything in your (CC's) words, smile and body language 'assumes' he can't help but say yes and see if he high tails it for the hills.

 

If not you may have picked up a 'utility man/special projects' ASM...good hunting!

[Its Me 10]

I wouldn't be coy about this. This may read a bit harsher than it would sound in-person but, be man about this and tell he can not self appoint himself as assistant scoutmaster. Ask him what gave him the idea to become and assitant scoutmaster. Interview him with questions and scenerios, than give a job description of what you expect from an ASM. Then ask if he still wahts the job he will need to fill out a background check sheet with the pack.