Charter Organization and PTAs

[JMan 10]

I am new to scouting. My son was a tiger last year and I am a Wolf den leader this year. I really enjoy scouting and am trying to learn as much as I can. We are having trouble in our pack and I am hoping someone will have some insight.

 

Our pack was rechartered 3 years ago. Our meetings are held at the local school and the pack has been growing. Three years ago the cub-master created a charter organization conisisting of himself and one other peron. We hold meetings at the school, but the PTA (3 years ago) didn't want to sponsor us.

 

Now our unit commissioner is questioning the validity of our charter. Does anyone know why a PTA wouldn't want to sponsor us and what we can do to alievate their concerns. The pack parents would like for us to continue to use the school's location.

 

Any suggestions on what we can do?

[OneHour 11]

I ran across this question when I was a cubmaster a couple of years back. It depends on how the chartering was sold to the PTA or the organization that is being sought as the charter organization (CO). If it is not presented properly, the word "liability" can turn an organization away from the charter. According to BSA (http://www.scouting.org/factsheets/02-507.html):

 

"Schools and community and religious organizations, with the help of the BSA, organize Cub Scout packs, Boy Scout troops, Varsity Scout teams, Venturing crews, and Sea Scout ships for boys and young men and women. They manage these units and control the program of activities to support the goals and objectives of the chartered organizations. When community organizations establish a new unit, they must take these two important actions to ensure a quality Scouting program:

 

1. Selecting leadership. The head of the chartered organization appoints a chartered organization representative to provide leadership in the selection of a committee of adults that will provide overall supervision for the unit's program. The committee selects the adult unit leaders who will work with the youth. The chartered organization representative is also a voting member of the local council and may serve as a member of the district committee.

 

2. Providing a meeting place and promoting a good program. The chartered organization arranges for adequate meeting facilities for the unit and promotes through its committee the full use of the program, including outdoor experiences, advancement, recognitions, and, in particular, Scouting's values."

 

This may not seem to be a lot, but if one steps back and think about it, the CO's responsibility to the Pack, Troop, or Crew is large. The act of being a CO is not as simple as most of organizations think it is. It is a hands-on development of the Pack, Troop, or Crew. The COR actively participate in the Pack, Troop, or Crew, something that a lot of the PTA folks will not take on while providing the meeting place may spell out liability to others. The involvement, on the other hand, varies with each CO and COR. Some take a very active role to the point of being in the way, while other takes on the laisez-faire role and is oblivious to what is going on in the unit (which is not good, since to a certain point, the CO is liable for what the unit does).

 

We had to assure to the principal of the Elementary that chartered us that we will work with her with all aspects of the Pack's activitiees that may involve the school and its liability and before she can sign our re-charter.

 

To me your PTA may have not been informed properly of the CO and COR's responsibility. My suggestion is to work with your DE (not your Unit Commissioner) to get the CO (PTA) to understand its function and responsibility without scaring them away. The DE may have a canned methodology of selling the chartering package. He/she can also verify to see if indeed your unit is properly chartered at the Council level.

 

http://www.scouting.org/relationships/04-113/

 

Good Luck

 

1Hour

[fotoscout 15]

Jman, welcome to the forum!

 

Nationally PTA has instructed its local organizations to stop chartering BSA units. The issue is fear of liability. If there is a more complete answer, maybe someone else here can fill us all in. Personally I think PTA has become so lame that it may as well go away. But thats another story.

 

Across the country there are units that are chartered just like yours. Organizations like: Friends of Pack 200, East Overshoe Scouting Organization, and the Scouting Union of Easy Township, have been set up to Charter BSA units. Its not the norm, nor should it be, but it works, and should be OK with your Council. If your UC has a problem with it, ask for a detailed reason why. If his answer is unacceptable then go to your DE.

 

In any event this may just be a push for you to go out and find a "real" CO.(This message has been edited by fotoscout)

[NWScouter 9]

The unit commissioner should not be questioning the validity of your charter. As Fotoscout has said it is not an uncommon for units to be chartered as you describe, it may not be the best way but it is permissible.

The only one to question a charter partners suitability is the Scout executive or his agent the district executive. He can refuse to issue or pull a charter.

The unit commissioners job is to assist you in getting that paperwork filled out and in.

 

[cmjeff 10]

Thank you for clarification.

 

~ 2002, PTA refused to work with pack

 

~ 2002- Pack applied to self charter and Council approved it.

 

~ Due to current issues with a pack treasurer and a tiger leader, district wants to change self-charter to school charter.

 

any ideas helpful

 

 

[Proud Eagle 13]

No, no, no, that won't work.

 

The pack can not be chartered to itself.

 

That just isn't allowed.

 

It can be chartered to a "Friends of Pack X", "Organizing Committee of Pack X", "Concerned Parents of Pack X", "Citizens Supporting Pack X" or something like that, but a "self-charter" is not only against the BSA's own rules, it is quite possibly a violation of the congressional charter.

 

So, either the unit doesn't really charter itself, or the unit leaders and council made a major mistake.

 

It is quite possible the council is now attempting to correct that mistake.

[cmjeff 10]

sorry, charter was parents of wes scouting

 

 

[OneHour 11]

My vote is to go with the school for the chartering. The school is in the best position to provide the facility that you need. Work with your DE to sell it to the principal and the school. We did and it is working out well. Self-charter (ie. privately by parents will leave you in a bind once the "chartering" parents have left the Pack). At the same time checking with the school, look into the School District to see their policy on chartering a unit. Our District Superintendent is very opened to the idea for his schools to charter a BSA unit; as a result, our principal does not have a problem with the support of the school district. We have a troop near by that is chartered by one of the fathers business (self owned). It is on the brink of folding because the boy is considering dropping scouting.

 

Good Luck,

 

1Hour

[NWScouter 9]

You are stepping into a can of worms if you have the school be the charter partner. If it is a private school thats ok, but the same reason the military units cant charter a unit apply to a public school. The school itself is a government entity and the BSA membership policies would run afoul of state and federal antidiscrimination laws. Youre inviting the ACLU to make your life miserable.

[Eamonn 61]

While the National PTA has frowned on PTA's chartering Scout Units, I see that in 2002 PTA'S were number 11 in the top 30 Organizations that charter Scouting units. They had 77,894 youth members in 1,593 units. Public Schools,Board of Education were number 3 with 383,657 youth in 10,566 units.

So there are a lot of Schools and a lot of PTA groups that are active in supporting Scouting.

In our District we do have a special needs pack where the CO is the School District.

While a group of well meaning people who share the values of Scouting can form a group that will be the CO, and this is "Legal and above board." Sad to say it normally falls apart within a few years. Not in every case but as people get older and their kids move on they lose interest and the names on paper become meaningless. As a CO they are supposed to provide a meeting place, as things stand now in your unit what would happen if you lost the school as a meeting place? Would these Charter members be able to find you a new home?

In some areas Schools are still happy to Charter Scout units, this will depend on the political climate in the area that you live. The same is true with PTA organizations, some as the numbers show have chosen to ignore the National organization.

I do think that your UC is over stepping his mark unless there are some problems. I would have a word with the DE and see if there is a problem and ask him or her to take it from there. Your role at this time is to deliver the program to the little fellows in the Den, let the Pack Committee and them guys worry about this stuff.

Eamonn