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15 hours ago, skeptic said:

While scans are done to assure no follow issues, all is well, and I am apparently fine. 

I hope all is well with you. Technology is amazing and embracing it is the only way to move forward.  

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so 

a game that is a direct fighting game. swordplay etc,

A game that involves causing carnage with cars.

And best of the lot is a game about football.

and we still cannot play laser tag. Not sure I totally follow this.

john

 

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10 years ago I would have thought this was nuts.  Today, my son is attending college on an esports scholarship.  I was talking with one of the associate deans about why and how they decided to go that route, he said more people will watch their top esport team than will ever attend one of their basketball or football games.

Earlier this evening my wife and I were listening to him do live color commentary on one of his university's other esports, not the one he plays --- he was really really good.  His professional goal is to be part of the live gaming industry, and that looks like a promising career path to me.  Oh, and the world championship of his game was watched by more people than tuned in to the World Series (the baseball one).

80% of scouting is outing, but that leaves a healthy 20% for a lot of other things.  As a proud recipient of the Chess MB circa 1970 I'm hard pressed to find actual fault with Scouting's decision here.

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21 hours ago, jcousino said:

so 
a game that is a direct fighting game. swordplay etc,
A game that involves causing carnage with cars.
And best of the lot is a game about football.
and we still cannot play laser tag. Not sure I totally follow this.

john

You are pointing out that a Guide To Safe Scouting can be ridiculous.  I 100% agree that laser tag should be allowed.  NOTE:  AS LEADERS, WE HAVE PLEDGED TO FOLLOW IT.  It's part of our honor to do that ... and with grumbling with laser tag.

To me, the eSports tournament is fine.  It's really not a significant debate to me.  Scouts want it.  They are doing it.  I'd be happy my son was trying to connect with a larger group.

We each judge a boundaries differently.  Laser tag is obviously not an issue to me.  I like your comment because it reminds me that I really had my sons in scouts to teach them to be men.   Responsibility.   Adventures.   Hardship.   Recognizing they can do really hard things.   ... I see zero issue with eSports or laser tag.  Laser tag is running around, sweating and competing.  We should celebrate it; not ban it.  ... .... BIG BIG TANGENT ... Personally, I wish my sons (and the rest of the scouts) could have done some of the earlier activities to toughen them up.   Bring back British Bulldog.  Bring back a revised master-at-arms MB and boxing tournaments.  We want our scouts to stand up to wrong.  That also means to teach them they will survive taking a punch.  ...  IMHO, it's why scouting was respected years ago.  Scouts were confident and tough.

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let's look at why I used laser tag I agree that pointing a gun at another person (first-person shooter games) does not fit the aims of scouting. so then why using a sword is ok or causing carnage with cars. The football was to best of the lot that could meet some of the scouting's goals. Not sure how much pay for play is involved.

Scouting (i know i am old) was based on the outdoor we are outside choice the counter to gaming with unreal risk and false rewards. I will choice the real world , being a little tired and dirty after a fun weekend out where I pushed my absolute limits and can say I did with real gains. sorry just beat my personal high score at warcraft does not do it.

Look at the national level of obese kids and adults so what does scouting what to set them down more, and for what aim?

 

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8 hours ago, jcousino said:

… pointing a gun at another person (first-person shooter games) does not fit the aims of scouting. so then why using a sword is ok or causing carnage with cars. …

A flawed assumption goes off the rails …

Aiming a weapon at  another person hastens death. Aiming at an effigy gives a false sense of superiority and dehumanizes the other.
Simulating the consequences of battle (i.e., sports, games, etc … followed by chats and fellowship) teaches to love opponents, eschew war, and forestall death.

We need to learn the difference.

And, we need online simulators of every scout camp … possibly every merit badge.

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Wii Totin' Chip ?

Games are for the purpose of practicing in fiction what may not be learned in reality.  Not everyone can  (or may want to be) a slum lord realtor millionaire, but you can play Monopoly. 

Shooting games, car crash games allow folks to "play" at killing and destruction.  We had the same discussion with our kids as they grew up ("Heck, mom, IT"S ONLY A GAME !"), yes, but what are you learning to do?  What are you practicing to do?  Getting better at?  Perfecting?   

What was the last 20 minutes of "Ender's Game" about?

 

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Kids need to play and adults need to learn from them. Maybe all that's needed is a way for the adults to find something they want to play while the scouts are playing at egames.

Are people dying in a video game much different than people dying in a murder mystery? Whether they're shot by a gun or a laser, stabbed with a sword, bludgeoned with a battle axe or poisoned by the tip of an umbrella, virtual people dying is a fixture of our amusement. The critical distinction is that real people are all sacred whereas characters in games,  movies and books aren't. Hopefully while playing these games the scouts will learn about this as they deal with winning and losing their games.

I hope everyone has a good new year.

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