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48 minutes ago, jcousino said:

Coed troop will be next that may be a little harder to get the remaining COs fundamentals church to buy into.

As a person on the opposite of the fundamentalist church spectrum, it will be hard for me to buy into co-ed troops. 

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"here's your chance to be official." I remain dismayed at the ease with which scouters ignore the rules and everyone knows about it and looks away. Until this pilot there were no mixed gender dens, ye

The most violated rule in all of scouting is the charter org agreement.  From training to product sales, many charters are not following the agreement.   I think if units want to see councils cra

that was just a way of not coming clean about what the real plan was.  co-ed i believe has always been the plan . Just did not what to disenfranchise  some of the church based CO's right away

1 hour ago, jcousino said:

that was just a way of not coming clean about what the real plan was.  co-ed i believe has always been the plan .

Just did not what to disenfranchise  some of the church based CO's right away

Coed troop will be next that may be a little harder to get the remaining COs fundamentals church to buy into.

I did like the concept of venture scouts being coed at that age (14-18-21)

Yep, we all knew what the plan was...(wink, wink).  Now that the LDS and others have left, they are free to execute.  I was a member of one of the first co-ed Explorer Posts in the early 70s.  I won't say it was unpleasant, as we were all in high school at the time.  There was definitely a lot of "Exploring" going on after Taps.

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9 minutes ago, scoutldr said:

Yep, we all knew what the plan was...(wink, wink).  Now that the LDS and others have left, they are free to execute.  I was a member of one of the first co-ed Explorer Posts in the early 70s.  I won't say it was unpleasant, as we were all in high school at the time.  There was definitely a lot of "Exploring" going on after Taps.

and in my explorer post as well.  ' 75-'78.

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We run our pack with coed dens, but pre-pubescent kids are totally different than those on the other side.  I wouldn't want to be a leader of a coed troop.  Imagine the law suits you'd face because a girl got pregnant at camp.  Are leaders supposed to stay awake all night to prevent Scouts from heading over to another tent or wandering off into the night for sex?  Our leaders as a kid couldn't keep us from running around in our underwear, playing capture the flag with other units' flags. We got in trouble the next day and had to return the flags and apologize (after getting dressed).  Pretty easy fix.  Trying to fix a night of sexual indiscretion is quite a bit harder.  It's like we have learned anything from these suits.  Scout on Scout sexual assault is a big factor in them.  I think that adding a bigger fuel load to the environment is a bad idea.

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4 minutes ago, Armymutt said:

We run our pack with coed dens, but pre-pubescent kids are totally different than those on the other side.  I wouldn't want to be a leader of a coed troop.  Imagine the law suits you'd face because a girl got pregnant at camp.  Are leaders supposed to stay awake all night to prevent Scouts from heading over to another tent or wandering off into the night for sex?  Our leaders as a kid couldn't keep us from running around in our underwear, playing capture the flag with other units' flags. We got in trouble the next day and had to return the flags and apologize (after getting dressed).  Pretty easy fix.  Trying to fix a night of sexual indiscretion is quite a bit harder.  It's like we have learned anything from these suits.  Scout on Scout sexual assault is a big factor in them.  I think that adding a bigger fuel load to the environment is a bad idea.

That's ridiculous. 

Edit: For starters, a significant percentage of linked gender troops in name have been functioning co-ed troops in practice. I know, I know -- they were not supposed to -- but plenty have been doing it nonetheless. 

Edited by yknot
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5 minutes ago, yknot said:

That's ridiculous. 

Edit: For starters, a significant percentage of linked gender troops in name have been functioning co-ed troops in practice. I know, I know -- they were not supposed to -- but plenty have been doing it nonetheless. 

Tell that to all the Scouts who have claims for male-on-male abuse.  There are far fewer Scouts who are willing todo that to a male Scout than a female Scout.  Not worth the risk in my book.  National and councils aren't going to pay out again.  The next round will be on the adult leaders who failed to prevent abuse, even if you were sleeping through the night when it occurred.

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youth on youth violence's I believe there is a worsen problem in scouting now, First based on changes to  ages of tent mates, no youth only camping (NYLT), ect). Not as much within a unit but at summer camps , I have have heard of many questionable behaviors (soon should have been criminal) toward female staff members and campers during mixed scouts events. It would not surprise me if scouting has not already been hit with sexual harassment suits for failing to protect female staff members from unwarranted comments and actions  by other staff or campers. 

john

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Hearsay to roil the waters is not a good idea.  Unless there is supporting evidence to such comments, it is not anything for this forum, or so it seems to me.  

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There's a thread about uniforms that ended in the gutter over sex (girls in string bikinis tempting boys) and now coed dens is turning into girls being raped. I guess it must be the fault of all the girls. Or at least we should just blame them.

Honestly, can we stop latching on to the least likely scenario that might happen and talk about what has happened? Have coed dens been a problem? If you want to talk about coed troops then what problems have you seen?

The biggest problem I've seen is obnoxious boy says stupid things to girl and, rather than an older scout slapping him up side his head and ending it, it exploded into phone calls and meetings and drama, oh my! But, nobody got raped.

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8 minutes ago, MattR said:

The biggest problem I've seen is obnoxious boy says stupid things to girl and, rather than an older scout slapping him up side his head and ending it, it exploded into phone calls and meetings and drama, oh my! But, nobody got raped.

Sad to say the least, but I find that in most cases, there is an adult somewhere that planted a seed and the scout gets the blame. If this is not the case, then it comes down to the SM having a discussion about making a bad decision. 

Barry

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28 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Sad to say the least, but I find that in most cases, there is an adult somewhere that planted a seed and the scout gets the blame. If this is not the case, then it comes down to the SM having a discussion about making a bad decision. 

Barry

No to the first, yes to the second (at least how I would have handled it). Stupid comments are a good opportunity to bring the scout law alive.

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18 minutes ago, MattR said:

No to the first, yes to the second (at least how I would have handled it). Stupid comments are a good opportunity to bring the scout law alive.

Yep, exactly. Still, it's hard for folks to understand that you want scouts to make bad decision now so that they can be corrected for adulthood. I would be surprised that girls don't make decisions in this area as well. I have witnessed such attitudes on this forum. 

Barry

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3 hours ago, MattR said:

There's a thread about uniforms that ended in the gutter over sex (girls in string bikinis tempting boys) and now coed dens is turning into girls being raped. I guess it must be the fault of all the girls. Or at least we should just blame them.

Honestly, can we stop latching on to the least likely scenario that might happen and talk about what has happened? Have coed dens been a problem? If you want to talk about coed troops then what problems have you seen?

The biggest problem I've seen is obnoxious boy says stupid things to girl and, rather than an older scout slapping him up side his head and ending it, it exploded into phone calls and meetings and drama, oh my! But, nobody got raped.

In 2021 I attended NYLT course director's conference in the fal.  It started off completely different than any other of the ones I had been to.  Took just a short time before the questions were asked why it was different.  The staff stated that in 2021 there were 42 complaints filed of youth on youth sexual abuse at NYLT courses.  So that is the number of filed complaints, you know that is only part of the total number.  And this is at the leadership training course where you hope that there is more maturity and composure.  And attendance at NYLT is a fraction of attendance at summer camps.  So, there is the counter to your "nobody got raped".  I decided that I am not willing to participate when the risk of liability is too high.  Personal choice of course.

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13 hours ago, Wyobkr said:

In 2021 I attended NYLT course director's conference in the fal.  It started off completely different than any other of the ones I had been to.  Took just a short time before the questions were asked why it was different.  The staff stated that in 2021 there were 42 complaints filed of youth on youth sexual abuse at NYLT courses.  So that is the number of filed complaints, you know that is only part of the total number.  And this is at the leadership training course where you hope that there is more maturity and composure.  And attendance at NYLT is a fraction of attendance at summer camps.  So, there is the counter to your "nobody got raped".  I decided that I am not willing to participate when the risk of liability is too high.  Personal choice of course.

There has got to be more to this story.

Barry

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2 hours ago, Eagledad said:

There has got to be more to this story.

Barry

I don't have anything to add on the specific cases, but that was the prompt to change that NYLT courses are required to have a two SMs now, one male and one female.

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