Staffing Shortages and What Are We Paying For?

[elitts 464]

19 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Comments I heard from staff this past week:

"Scouts who are not swimmers can go in a canoe with a buddy if that Scout is a swimmer." 

That seems to be a pretty common misapplication of the rule as I've heard LOTS of Scouters saying it too.  Probably because the rule isn't written well.  Canoes are a different enough beast from other multi-person craft that they should just have their own entry specifying non-swimmers can only ride with adult swimmers.

BSA's fixation on narrative formatting (rather than bullet points) is a real problem in many of these instances of guideline misunderstandings.

[Eagle1993 2041]

1 hour ago, qwazse said:

Adult volunteers are extensions of paid staff.

I've never heard this.  I struggle to get enough adults to come to camp already...  High adventure hasn't been an issue.  Summer camp, they scatter.

[69RoadRunner 375]

19 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

I've never heard this.  I struggle to get enough adults to come to camp already...  High adventure hasn't been an issue.  Summer camp, they scatter.

Perhaps I worded it poorly. We are there for scout safety, first and foremost. Sure, we help out. We should not be viewed as replacements for paid staff while being charged full price and burning personal leave.

[fred8033 1418]

5 hours ago, qwazse said:

Adult volunteers are extensions of paid staff.

Can be.  Camp should not assume unless explicitly stated.  Kudos to adult volunteers who step up to supplement camp staff.  That's their choice and kudos to them.

[Eagle94-A1 2471]

I know things happen with staff.  I have been asked teach classes at summer camp. Also some courses ask you to supplement the staff, i.e. BSA Lifeguard. But I have not been to a summer camp that has charged full price for adults. Every camp I have been to or worked at had 2 adults free, and some type of formula for extra adults. And the fee for the extra adults has never been the same price as the Scouts.

As for charging the Scouts extra to cover adult costs, i have families that can barely cover the cost for their Scouts. In fact i have 2 Scouts not go to camp this year, because they could not raise the money within 5 weeks of joining. 

[Jameson76 1407]

If only Summit had squirreled away some of the +/- $750 million ( yes they squandered that much) spent on the Disney Scouting Land into some T-Bills or interest bearing bonds, maybe they could afford staff.

That balloon payment looming is not paying for itself

[Sentinel947 1204]

On 7/27/2022 at 8:11 AM, qwazse said:

Adult volunteers are extensions of paid staff. I don’t know why anyone would think otherwise. Every time I’m at camp for a full week, I check in with the camp director and ask where I can pitch in. (It’s usually aquatics. Not many scouters keep up their guard certification.)

This is nothing new. When I wanted to earn First Aid MB, my SM walked us over to a neighboring campsite and introduced me the their SM who would be my counselor.

The challenge these days for scouters is that simply keeping up with training is sucking a lot of bandwidth. (I really admire the COPE volunteers who keep the climbing courses rolling.)

There's a difference between Unit Adult Chaperones/Volunteers at Summer camp helping with food serving, helping clean the shower house or doing odd jobs for the Ranger, vs being enlisted to run a program area that would be covered by a paid staff member. Especially when the adults in question took off a week of work, AND got charged $400+ for the privilege to be unpaid volunteers doing a paid staff position. 

I used to volunteer regularly when I attended Scout camps with my unit, helping the Commissioners, or the Dining Staff or Shooting Sports staff. I even co taught First Aid Merit Badge one year,  but I did it freely. I saw a need, offered to help, that offer was accepted. I certainly wasn't being charged full price entry, and then having my arm twisted with some variation of "We need you to run a program area, it's for the kids ya know?" Camp leadership that inflict that kind of stuff on the adult unit volunteers, will strangle the golden goose that is their summer camp. I get adults need to pay full price for things like Philmont or Summit, but the idea that an adult volunteer attending summer camp so their unit can go has to pay the same fee as a youth who is participating in the camp program is taking advantage of the volunteers. 

[curious_scouter 79]

On 7/27/2022 at 9:21 AM, elitts said:

That seems to be a pretty common misapplication of the rule as I've heard LOTS of Scouters saying it too.  Probably because the rule isn't written well.  Canoes are a different enough beast from other multi-person craft that they should just have their own entry specifying non-swimmers can only ride with adult swimmers.

BSA's fixation on narrative formatting (rather than bullet points) is a real problem in many of these instances of guideline misunderstandings.

That's actually the policy.  Within boating for those not classified as swimmers there are two tiers:

• Fixed seat rowboat or pedal boat:  Those not classified as swimmers can operate "fixed-seat rowboat or pedal boat accompanied by a buddy who is a swimmer".  Because these vessels are far less likely to capsize, an adult buddy is not a requirement.
• Canoe or other paddle craft:  Those not classified as swimmers can go canoeing if they share a canoe with a Swimmer Adult.

Additionally, these policies only apply "on calm water with little likelihood of capsizing or falling overboard".  So someone not classified as a swimmer would not be okay to buddy up with an adult swimmer for white water rafting for example.

https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss02/#j

[UKScouterInCA 32]

On 7/26/2022 at 10:42 AM, InquisitiveScouter said:

Comments I heard from staff this past week:

<snip>

"I don't really know how to define a mammal."  Mammal Study MB Instructor at beginning of class.

<snip>

It feels so easy to define a mammal. Until you learn about the Duck Billed Platypus.