5thGenTexan 504 Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 Not unexpected or surprised, But there is an official graphic for it now. Link to post Share on other sites
Jameson76 1481 Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 Not really digging the Council Fee option in the hand dandy graphic. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
scoutldr 726 Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 1 hour ago, Jameson76 said: Not really digging the Council Fee option in the hand dandy graphic. I think they've been doing that for a few years. Our SE said he might waive it if they hit the FOS goals. Link to post Share on other sites
MikeS72 436 Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 2 hours ago, Jameson76 said: Not really digging the Council Fee option in the hand dandy graphic. We have a council fee, but our council uses it to be able to provide a number of activities at no additional charge to units. Things like district camporee, cub family camp, cub district shooting sports days, BALOO and IOLS training no longer have a fee associated with them. They also greatly reduced the fees for both NYLT and Woodbadge. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle1993 2160 Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 This is painful for recruiting Lions/Tigers. Add in the uniform cost, Pack dues and you can get to $200+ just to join Cub Scouts fairly quickly. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
mrjohns2 577 Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 3 hours ago, Eagle1993 said: This is painful for recruiting Lions/Tigers. It is. It is hard for parents who don’t know the program to know if it is worth the investment. That is why the $25 fee hurts. Since the main fee is prorated, I see why they have the $25. But unlike sports, many families don’t know what they are getting into and have to take a risk. Now the cost for that risk continues to grow. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
curious_scouter 125 Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 Our council has a hefty $46 per scout additional fee. Initially they called it an "insurance fee" but after being called out on the fact that insurance costs have gone DOWN for the council in each of the past 5 years, they renamed it "activity fee". You know what my two sons got for that $46 each fee last year? Free lunch one day at a camporee. A turkey sandwich, bag of chips and little carton of milk. I kid you not. I honestly don't know what council needs or uses that money for but from my POV it's just a tax on parents and volunteers to make up shortfalls in their budget. Even volunteer adults "get" to pay this fee. It is ludicrous. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
mrjohns2 577 Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 3 minutes ago, curious_scouter said: I honestly don't know what council needs or uses that money for but from my POV it's just a tax on parents and volunteers to make up shortfalls in their budget. They have to pay salaries somehow. How are your council FOS and popcorn efforts? How else do they raise money? Link to post Share on other sites
curious_scouter 125 Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 Popcorn and FOS are almost exactly today what they were in 2018. It's not for salaries. It's not entirely clear what it is for, that's the issue. Help me understand how in 2018 first year membership was $33 and in 2021 it is $146 in my council. I stand by it. It's ludicrous. The people collecting these fees owe us transparency. They owe us a plan for getting back to an affordable rate. They owe it to scouting NOT to make this a country club activity only accessible to the most wealthy who can afford these huge annual fees which are just the tip of the iceberg in costs for scouting. They are professionals, they ought to be able to figure out a plan to get straight financially that doesn't boil down to "tax the heck out of all our members". That had never been an approach ever. And then it was. It was clear that keeping scouting accessible to all was a priority of Scouts BSA and then suddenly around 2018 - nope. That's sad. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
mrjohns2 577 Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 2 hours ago, curious_scouter said: Help me understand how in 2018 first year membership was $33 and in 2021 it is $146 in my council. What portion of the $33 and $146 are the national fee? Your council popcorn and FOS have stayed steady even though membership is down significantly? Link to post Share on other sites
InquisitiveScouter 1653 Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 Our fees for 2022 were $72 National and $66 Council, total $138. $163 for new Scouts. Council has not yet announced 2023 fees. What have we seen from our fees locally? Nothing. Our DE (who is stretched way too thin) did not have the bandwidth to visit our IH to get our 2022 Charter Agreement. We did the legwork for him and got all signatures, then delivered it to him. Shouldn't be that way. But, hey! There is a Council Golf Tournament and a Trap Shooting Fund Raiser on the Council's books! Why do we pay fees for things/services that are not available, or we don't use? Meanwhile, our camp facilities are a C... maybe C+ And we have only the one camp... I am for more council mergers, and transition to national-level IT solutions for most of the membership functions councils do... What are the functions of council left? - Run a camp (volunteers plan and execute all other program... with council tacking on extra fees to help pay salaries) - Unit service for, primarily, YPT or safety infractions. Understand and agree on the need for this... - Fund development needs would be greatly reduced by cutting staff positions. How many of your council employees exist primarily to support fundraising? Our unit runs well because of dedicated volunteers, not because of any support our council provides. We even do (out of necessity due to scarcity of opportunities in-council) most of our leader and youth training out-of-council. Merge, baby, merge... Link to post Share on other sites
eagle90 125 Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 A yes - the council golf tournament - Just got our announcement. Minimum is $3000.00 for a foursome!! Not for the average grass roots scouter! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
curious_scouter 125 Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 On 7/8/2022 at 7:53 PM, mrjohns2 said: What portion of the $33 and $146 are the national fee? Your council popcorn and FOS have stayed steady even though membership is down significantly? $33 of the $33 was national. $75 of the $146 was national. My unprofessional, non-forensic opinion is the biggest impact they have seen is camping revenue has tanked. It's down over $500,000 annually. DESPITE this obvious reality - they continue to budget for much higher revenue from camp and consistently fall short. One of the reasons I have such an issue with the assessment of the additional council fee is that it seems obvious a bulk of it is to cover this deficit. HOWEVER, the fee has been assessed to every scout in council. The first year it was in place, Cubs could not even attend the camp in question. Now they can but their opportunity to do so is much more limited than Scouts BSA members, yet the fee is the same for each. Additionally 60% of camp attendance in the summer is out of council units. This fee is a council fee to cover the shortfall from running the camp. So we are subsidizing the camping fees for a LOT of out of council scouts. That's what I've come to understand and it's why I find it a hard pill to swallow. FOS is down a bit but nothing like the camping revenue tanking. FOS being down is not surprising. Who contributes to that? The most passionate and invested people. They are still here, so the revenue should be strong-ish still. But... we all have limits. When I was paying $48 a year for my two scouts, it was very easy to open up the checkbook when the FOS people came around. Now that it's $300 a year... I mean... what do you expect? You're getting what I can reasonable contribute from mandatory fees now. Sorry... nothing left to give when FOS comes around and zero excitement to see them come around and ask families for more money when they've already increased the base cost of scouting to them by 5 orders of magnitude in the past 3 years without any objective improvement of a similar magnitude to the program or experience for the scouts. It should embarrass them honestly. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
curious_scouter 125 Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 On 7/9/2022 at 9:23 AM, InquisitiveScouter said: What have we seen from our fees locally? Nothing. Our DE (who is stretched way too thin) did not have the bandwidth to visit our IH to get our 2022 Charter Agreement. We did the legwork for him and got all signatures, then delivered it to him.... I feel like we might be in the same council. Either that or this is a VERY familiar story. Last year my scouts got ONE lunch at a Camporee free for this fee. A single turkey and cheese sandwich and a small box of milk. No joke. Link to post Share on other sites
InquisitiveScouter 1653 Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 32 minutes ago, curious_scouter said: I feel like we might be in the same council. Either that or this is a VERY familiar story. Last year my scouts got ONE lunch at a Camporee free for this fee. A single turkey and cheese sandwich and a small box of milk. No joke. Not the same council, because at least your Scouts got something! Link to post Share on other sites
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