Jump to content

On my Honor - Documentary on BSA Sex Abuse Scandal


Recommended Posts

20 minutes ago, OaklandAndy said:

While I do agree with you to a certain extent, no business (non-profit or not) is going to tell you something some egregious.

In the auto industry it is called the NHTSA safety reports (1 to 5 stars) and in the pharmaceutical industry they are called "Pharmacy Auxiliary Labels" (Drug Warnings). I am sure I can find more examples.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 210
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I want to apologize for me cussing in my comment last week.I let my anger take control of my response.Please accept my apology.I don't want Scouts to shutdown.Even though I was abused I've seen a lot

I think this is the wrong way to look at the problem and is the source of a lot of angst here. Rather than ask for a specific failure rate that is acceptable, after which everyone can say there is no

Youth members also use this forum, can we please keep the conversations and language respectful of that? Scouting is local, always has been, always will be. And locally, most units operate withou

Posted Images

1 hour ago, johnsch322 said:

In the auto industry it is called the NHTSA safety reports (1 to 5 stars) and in the pharmaceutical industry they are called "Pharmacy Auxiliary Labels" (Drug Warnings). I am sure I can find more examples.

I'm all for all the other youth scout organizations providing their data so a baseline can be determined for the ranking of the stars. I also believe yearly total numbers are important so parent can compare the groups to measure risks.

Barry

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

20 Centuries of Catholic Church on review, but with obvious analogies to the century of BSA...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRsaxXrjk3w&ab_channel=playinhard

please take 20 minutes to view

 

Powerful stuff. I do miss Hitch. It is true. You can substitute BSA for Catholic Church and the issues with denial and lack of institutional honesty sound the very same.  Violence condoned in pursuit of a higher goal is not pardonable.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, MattR said:

Look at air travel. Back in the 70's there were enough crashes that all the parties involved (manufacturers, airlines, regulators) got together and decided that air travel was both important and dangerous. They started measuring death rates in deaths per billion passenger miles traveled. I think it started around 3000 deaths/Bmi and is now less than one. They will never be satisfied and more people travel because of it.

Interesting analogy. As a private pilot, I have seen first hand the commitment to improving aviation safety. The flying public today is safer now than it has ever been due to this emphasis on safety and prevention. An important part of this is the National Transportation Safety Board which is an independent, governmental  body charged with investigating incidents and making recommendations to prevent future incidents. They are very skilled and have broad investigative powers. While they work with airlines, pilot associations and manufacturers, they are independent and their findings carry great weight. Their recommendations have resulted in major improvements in aviation safety. If we are serious about youth safety and protection and believe there is a significant problem, then perhaps we need the development of an NTSB style entity that is not beholden to any organization but whose authority, credibility and oversight can lead to the continuous improvement that MattR suggests.

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, johnsch322 said:

I am sure I can find more examples.

I'm sure you can't find a high percentage who actually look those numbers up. The statistics are out there for you to look up, not to tell willingly. Big difference. Unless you're trying to make a change and difference right here and now, what is that people want and what are you trying to prove? 

Did the BSA mess up. Yes! Are they going to pay for it. Yes! Are people going to be aware of it. Yes! That doesn't change the mission that the volunteers are trying to uphold here and now. Be a part of solution, no the problem- "nuff said". 

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, OaklandAndy said:

I'm sure you can't find a high percentage who actually look those numbers up. The statistics are out there for you to look up, not to tell willingly. Big difference. Unless you're trying to make a change and difference right here and now, what is that people want and what are you trying to prove? 

Did the BSA mess up. Yes! Are they going to pay for it. Yes! Are people going to be aware of it. Yes! That doesn't change the mission that the volunteers are trying to uphold here and now. Be a part of solution, no the problem- "nuff said". 

You are correct there is a big difference. Do you think a drug company or any company wants warnings on their product? No never but past actions or current sometimes necessitates such actions. 

Discussion and ideas can make things better. I know for a fact that survivor members of the YPT committee read these posts and some ideas may be brought forward for incorporation. If I float a solution or a recommendation whether it is something more direct or making parents more aware I might just be part of the solution. Alas your "nuff said" is not part of a solution. There can never be enough said about CSA and YPT.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

I know for a fact that survivor members of the YPT committee read these posts and some ideas may be brought forward for incorporation.

Which committee is this?  The one that was a part of the non-monetary demands of the settlement has not been created.

 

4 hours ago, MattR said:

Rather than ask for a specific failure rate that is acceptable, after which everyone can say there is no longer a problem, it would be better to use methods that continually drive down failure rates.

Of course.  But as the old saying goes, "The unaimed arrow never misses."

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, johnsch322 said:

You are correct there is a big difference. Do you think a drug company or any company wants warnings on their product? No never but past actions or current sometimes necessitates such actions. 

Discussion and ideas can make things better. I know for a fact that survivor members of the YPT committee read these posts and some ideas may be brought forward for incorporation. If I float a solution or a recommendation whether it is something more direct or making parents more aware I might just be part of the solution. Alas your "nuff said" is not part of a solution. There can never be enough said about CSA and YPT.

Just to be clear though, drug companies don't have warning labels based upon past history of old drug formulations, they post warnings of known risks of the current drug.  So any BSA risks and warnings pamphlet should be based upon the BSA's more recent history rather than the pre-1980s.

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, MattR said:

There is no acceptable failure rate in the BSA, the BSA should continue and the model should be find the low hanging fruit and solve that first. Repeat forever. 

As an engineer who works in industrial production, this is exactly how we view safety. Our plant alone spends millions a year on safety, but it will never stop. Never. We report, we investigate root causes, we fix, engineer, implement, and repeat. Forever. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, MYCVAStory said:

Which committee is this?  The one that was a part of the non-monetary demands of the settlement has not been created.

My recollection is Dr. Kennedy from the TCC watches the forum, per one post eons ago. He testified about working on the YP terms now in the plan. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

My recollection is Dr. Kennedy from the TCC watches the forum, per one post eons ago. He testified about working on the YP terms now in the plan. 

I should have quoted better originally.  Johnsuch said "I know for a fact that survivor members of the YPT committee read these posts and some ideas may be brought forward for incorporation. "  I'm not clear what Committee that's supposed to be unless one has been formed, prior to any confirmation ruling, and the BSA hasn't communicated that.  I'm looking forward to a TCC Town Hall after a ruling and getting a sense of "what now?!"

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I am putting this here, as I am unsure where it might be a point of discussion.  This quote is from an opinion piece related to the current SCOTUS issue.  But it seems to me that with a tweak or two, it might well reflect on the problems in BSA and really society in general.  BSA or Scouting began as an effort to create better citizens at a time of great turmoil and change.  It became very idealistic, even as it struggled to fit into the changing society.  The repetitive use of its "goody-goody" image as out of sync grew, even possibly making some refuse to recognize that it still had elements of the greater society or culture in which it was living.  Here is the quote; 

"What is clear is that the court has become a tragic anachronism in our age of rage: an institution that relied on the integrity and ethics of its members and staff at a time when such values are treated as naive. It relied on justices and clerks alike remaining bound to the institution and to each other by a constitutional faith."

Moderators, please feel free to do what you choose and put it in the right place if you feel it does not fit.  

  • Thanks 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, skeptic said:

an institution that relied on the integrity and ethics of its members and staff at a time when such values are treated as naive.

Ouch… I would also be too embarrassed to link to that partisan source (Jonathan Turley of The Hill).  

Integrity and ethics are very, very important but some hide behind the veneer of the institution. How does a victim of abuse in the BSA think when they hear trustworthy, loyal… ? I know it makes my stomach turn even as I try to follow the same principles in my life.

We need to track ethics and integrity by actions not words. SCOTUS has ideals of non-partisanship but politicians fight for the appointments… so the ideal is laughable.  Same for BSA in my mind, better to prove it than say it. 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, clbkbx said:

Ouch… I would also be too embarrassed to link to that partisan source (Jonathan Turley of The Hill).  

Integrity and ethics are very, very important but some hide behind the veneer of the institution. How does a victim of abuse in the BSA think when they hear trustworthy, loyal… ? I know it makes my stomach turn even as I try to follow the same principles in my life.

We need to track ethics and integrity by actions not words. SCOTUS has ideals of non-partisanship but politicians fight for the appointments… so the ideal is laughable.  Same for BSA in my mind, better to prove it than say it. 

Esse quam videre

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...