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Chapter 11 Announced - Part 10 - Post Confirmation Hearing/Judges Ruling


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8 hours ago, skeptic said:

I have seen several articles lately about LC owned camps being worth $10 Billion, apparently according to Kosnoff." 

Can you provide a link where Kosnoff is quoted saying that?

8 hours ago, skeptic said:

And he is NOT the champion of the people some seem to think,

Obviously not your champion but he is a champion to quite a few.

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A friend contacted me privately, concerned I've not been posting. He knows I am on all the hearings and was checking in on me. Honestly, Eagle1993 does such an excellent job I had little to add. My at

Thanks for mentioning that.  Probably a good time for me to pop back up.  I just want to say thanks to everyone who participates on this and other forums (Fora?).  I take my role on the TCC seriously

I hope you find some peace.  For me, the start of the bankruptcy and having to address the abuse again was difficult. But, I went back to therapy and found some other people with similar experien

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On 6/3/2022 at 1:37 PM, yknot said:

I feel for the survivors who have had to relieve their worst memories but the price of "leaving it alone" would have meant a future legacy of yet more destroyed children. BSA only began to confront this when it was put face to face with the nightmares that happened on its watch.  

This is one thing I generally agree with.  I do think the numbers have and will prove that most of the steps implemented by the BSA in the last 40 years had already done much to mitigate (not eliminate) the problem; but even so, I think there was still a significant feeling of "well, that could never happen here" among active scouters that opened up dangerous holes in the protections for kids. 

10 hours ago, johnsch322 said:

Why is the answer Kosnoff when he did not write the article nor was he quoted in the article?

Kosnoff was one of the most frequent and vocal advocates of the idea that the LCs were sitting on massive piles of un-tapped wealth in their camps from the early days of this bankruptcy.  He's the one that was pushing the idea that the BSA could simply liquidate all the Councils, absorb their assets and include them in the bankruptcy too.  So while he may not have been a direct source in this article, the core concept was one of this talking points for a LONG time (relative to this case).

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10 hours ago, skeptic said:

"Just wondering about this.  I have seen several articles lately about LC owned camps being worth $10 Billion, apparently according to Kosnoff."  And he is NOT the champion of the people some seem to think, as should be obvious from some of his actions and his meddling with parts of the procedure and being warned by the judge.  I suspect you actually know this.

This particular article did not attribute the valuation to Kosnoff.  I read a couple of others that did.

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2 hours ago, johnsch322 said:

Can you provide a link where Kosnoff is quoted saying that?

Obviously not your champion but he is a champion to quite a few.

I simply quoted the OP.  Frankly, it is not worth my time to try to find it in the numerous pages of things on this forum.  Most on here over the last year or more have surely seen some of the indicators of exaggeration and possibly supposition by K, as well as some other "legal" line walkers.  Reality is that most of the legal people involved often make me pretty skeptical.  

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Just now, johnsch322 said:

So does anyone know what the real value of the camps and property owned by the LC's?

Appraised value, market value, tax roll value, value after variance and rezoning...?

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21 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

So does anyone know what the real value of the camps and property owned by the LC's?

On one of these Chapter 11 Threads, there is a link to a court document that lists 2 to 3 appraisal prices, if memory serves. Be advised that it does include camps with restrictions on them, so even that is not 100% accurate. I know one council camp on the list has a high value price on it and noted that it is restricted. What the document does not state is the restriction: that when the Scouts no longer use the camp, it will revert back to the trust. So while the council operates it and allows units to build structures on it and make improvements to the property, they cannot sell it for money. Another restricted camp, with a high value, will not get the valuation price listed as the family that sold the camp to the Council has right of first refusal at the actual cost the council bought it for. And believe me the price is SIGNIFICANTLY lass than what the council bought it for.

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58 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

On one of these Chapter 11 Threads, there is a link to a court document that lists 2 to 3 appraisal prices, if memory serves.

The document you want is Exhibit D-2 to the Disclosure Statement.  The Solicitation version (Docket No. 6445) is linked here:  https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/da60d7ce-df85-45e9-9737-4dd1a5d50014_6445.pdf  Relevant section starts on Page 353.

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2 hours ago, skeptic said:

I simply quoted the OP.  Frankly, it is not worth my time to try to find it in the numerous pages of things on this forum.  Most on here over the last year or more have surely seen some of the indicators of exaggeration and possibly supposition by K, as well as some other "legal" line walkers.  Reality is that most of the legal people involved often make me pretty skeptical.  

Look at my post above with the link.  I posted the article with attribution to Kosnoff, from NPR.  Click the link, view the article.

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4 hours ago, Eagle1970 said:

This particular article did not attribute the valuation to Kosnoff.  I read a couple of others that did.

Get on his Twitter there are a bunch of his comments talking about it.From the start he has been pushing to shut the whole outfit down.He wants his name in history books.To me he is a showboat.At the begining he talks how he came out of retirement on his yacht in Puerto Rico for this case.Im just a electrician but even I can see that was for the money and to try and be the one to shut them down.I would bet my little 10 acres of land to say he ain't giving his clients any discount.He talks way to much trash about every other person involved in this case. Sorry if my statement tics anyone off but I call it like I see it. 

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I have read the TDP and have a pretty good understanding of how it works, if this is approved.  What I have little handle on is what the payouts might be.  I understand $3500 and done is one option, and I understand the Independent Review Option.  The balance are subject to the Matrix, which has Aggravating and Mitigating Factors.  If this were fully funded, and claimants received what the Matrix called for, there would still be decent settlements.  But the part I cannot grasp is the extent to which claims will be funded. 

Obviously, this is an unknown that will be based on the number of claims and the final claims factor, and will be applied to the money currently received in the Trust and that to be received in the future.  So, with all that said, for the sake of example, if a claimant's abuse was in the top tier ($600,000) and for simplicity has a 1.0 scaling factor then fully-funded he would receive $600,000.  It would appear the Trust will be tremendously underfunded.  But, to what extent.  Will the referenced $600,000 turn into $60,000, $30,000.  Thoughts anyone?

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