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Reporting Adults Who Do Not Follow Lightning Precautions


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On 3/29/2022 at 11:26 PM, InquisitiveScouter said:

At our Scout meeting, I talked with parents of our newest NYLT grad.  During the NYLT session last weekend, there was a strong thunderstorm.  (We live about 12 miles, as the crow flies, from the camp, and it was pretty intense here.)

The parents told me their Scout was terrified...Scout reports that NYLT adult leaders told them to stay outdoors during the storm with visible lightning/audible thunder.  Dining hall was about 250 feet away.  The parents asked me about lightning safety precautions and why they weren't followed.  I told them I'd look into it and report.

I will seek some additional input from our other NYLTers to corroborate, and report this to our SE in the morning.

Any advice or experiences to share??

These things, if true, really chap my hide, as they border on criminal...

Where's @RichardB at?

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I'm trying to figure  out what to do with these staffers.  Could we tell Will Smith they made fun of his wife?   As others have pointed out there comes a time in most people's lives, when they re

Playing devils advocate, if the nearby dining hall is taller and does not have a lightning rod to ground it, also if the construction materials of the dining hall are more conductive then the shorter

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My camp had a siren that they could blast over the PA system with loudspeakers outside of the Dining Hall.  Used primarily for "lost camper" drills, it could be heard throughout the camp, supplemented by walkie-talkies at each program area.  When the siren sounded, ALL personnel would muster at the dining hall for roll call.  I could see the same thing used for severe weather alerts.  Have a clear procedure that every camper is made aware of.

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Eagle94 if your council has a policy of pulling scout in during storm which it does and they did not it ,It is child endangerment. Legal reporting is not an option its most likely the law . Check with child protective services not The SE will most likely will attempt to down play it. 

 

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13 minutes ago, jcousino said:

Eagle94 if your council has a policy of pulling scout in during storm which it does and they did not it ,It is child endangerment. Legal reporting is not an option its most likely the law . Check with child protective services not The SE will most likely will attempt to down play it. 

 

Don't I know it. We pulled campers from the outpost area who were doing Wilderness Survival overniter  into DH one time. Got interesting when 2 campers went MIA. Good news was they snuck back to their camp after everyone went to sleep, were safe, and were found.

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@Eagle94-A1 read thru the thread.   Since the camp, council or specific course isn't identified that I can tell it would be most helpful for the unit or @InquisitiveScouter to report the incident to the council so that they can address it.    Sounds like the council leadership is unaware outside the course directors.       

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Playing devils advocate, if the nearby dining hall is taller and does not have a lightning rod to ground it, also if the construction materials of the dining hall are more conductive then the shorter lean-to could be the safer location. But lightning is unpredictable and while usually will ground to the tallest, the "closer" ground can be the shortest distance and likely path. In short, there are no absolutes in storms as to the safe place, only a continuum of unsafe.

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Posted (edited)

So, I just spoke with the Camp Director/Training Advisor...

During Summer Camp, there is simply not enough space to provide safe haven for all campers inside recommended structures.  Summer Camp "procedures" are to watch storm cells on radar, and only pull people into the robust structures if the cells get within 10 miles or if there is "significant effect" to camp, in the eyes of Camp Director and Program Director.  (His explanation, not mine...) 

My observation of this practice is that it is based on an underlying assumption is that lightning is predictable.  I do appreciate the dilemma based on building capacities.  Of course, the follow on question is, well what do you do when there is a "significant effect" or the cells are within 10, with those that don't fit in the buildings?

At this NYLT weekend event, he had advised Course Directors to use those Summer Camp procedures.

Camp Director concurs with me that this is not acceptable, and that, if space is available, it must be used.  He agreed (from under his Training Advisor hat) that they should not have applied the Summer Camp practices to this event.

We will talk again soon after I digest this...and I will ask what course of action he intends to implement.  Holding on to the Near Miss report until next conversation tomorrow...

------------------------------------

At the out-of-council Summer Camp we attended year before last, this was pretty much the same story.  (I didn't give a flying leap.)  When there was visible lightning/audible thunder, I happened to be near the Scoutmaster lounge, so informed the camp leadership.  One (remaining nameless & title-less) looked at his phone and said "That storm isn't going to affect us."  I told him I was pulling all my Scouts into the dining hall. 

As if it would change my mind he said, "Well, they are going to get partials for the classes they miss."  I walked away to gather our Scouts into the dining hall.   While we were in there, Scouts were out in the pouring rain, changing classes.  Lightning struck and downed a tree less than 100 feet from dining hall.  The flash and bang were spectacular 😜 In about 45 seconds, we had 200 new friends in there with us .  One of those times you hate being right...  Now anytime I tell our Scouts we are getting to cover, they skedaddle!

 

Edited by InquisitiveScouter
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, jcousino said:

Be careful  with the feedback been told that i am taking up to much of the councils time with safety issues and suggestions

Yes, the usual practice is to wait until someone gets hurt/killed, settle the law suit, then do something about it...

With thoughts and prayers for the family, of course...

Jade for sale, anyone?

Amazon.com: CrystalAge Jade Tumble Stone (20-25mm) - Pack of 5 :  CrystalAge: Home & Kitchen

Edited by InquisitiveScouter
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Posted (edited)

And second youth staffer from my unit just confirmed....during the storm, adult staff did leave the dining hall to check on the NYLT patrols.  (I'm fine with that...adults can assume their own risk...)

But, the adult staff also had the youth staff go out in the storm to visit and check on NYLT patrols, with active lightning/thunder.  I had the Scout on speaker phone with his Dad...

I told him to please never do that again.  Adults should not be directing them to take that risk.  And, if they do, politely refuse.  If they press, excuse yourself, get your phone and call your parent for help.

Dad wholeheartedly concurred.

That Scout is 14.

Edited by InquisitiveScouter
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17 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

So, I just spoke with the Camp Director/Training Advisor...

During Summer Camp, there is simply not enough space to provide safe haven for all campers inside recommended structures.

Camp Titanic? Strike that, Titanic crew served children first.

Edited by RememberSchiff
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18 hours ago, DuctTape said:

Playing devils advocate, if the nearby dining hall is taller and does not have a lightning rod to ground it, also if the construction materials of the dining hall are more conductive then the shorter lean-to could be the safer location. But lightning is unpredictable and while usually will ground to the tallest, the "closer" ground can be the shortest distance and likely path. In short, there are no absolutes in storms as to the safe place, only a continuum of unsafe.

Good point. Another concern is fallen trees from thunderstorms.  Here's a former Camp Hinds (ME) counselor cabin (no one  inside at strike)

image.png.bd9e1d97df7f86032462b592d30a738c.png

 

https://www.pressherald.com/2018/08/08/tree-falls-on-unoccupied-cabin-at-scout-camp-in-raymond/

 

Edited by RememberSchiff
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