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Chapter 11 Announced - Part 9 - Confirmation Hearing


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16 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

Almost everyone as needed  (especially including lawyers) will be taking screen shots or recording as needed. 

No argument here.  I just wanted to remind people so they are aware that disseminating screenshots, video, audio might get them in trouble.

 

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Dr. Doug Kennedy made an impassioned speech to the court and asked the Judge to keep her focus on the survivors as she makes her decision(s).  Jessica Lauria thanks the court for the time devoted.   A

Annnnd....Judge has now said that she will give this another 45 minutes and pick things up in the morning.  Thus far the only clear winner in all of this is "Billable Hours."  

Missed this morning so far. Yesterday ... my takeaways. Bankruptcy US Trustee's path is clear .... go after the fact that some releases are being given with no contribution.  One o

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4 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

Explore pension elimination.  Too much collaboration slows us down.

... Assuming future pensions.  Past and current pensions are an owed debt.  

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Just now, fred8033 said:

... Assuming future pensions.  Past and current pensions are an owed debt.  

Correct.  I would assume a pension freeze.

Now going through slides ... $400M from donors in by Dec 2023.  Place HA bases in trusts.  100% debt free by Dec 2023.

Focus on the $400M discussion that was removed as was the pension plan topic.  That is being discussed now.

 

 

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Ok, there is a break in the hearing.  I'm working while the hearing is in the background.  From what I can gleam, AIG is asking how BSA executive committee was involved in pulling together the plan and also to clarify what they plan to do post bankruptcy. 

Speculation here ... it is almost as if AIG is laying out a case that BSA is attempting to dump most of the cost on insurers, sandbag their current financial situation and then post bankruptcy, show major cost savings and big donors to quickly recover (while insurance bares the brunt of the cost).  AIG also spent a lot of time indicating the Coalition essential wrote the TDPs.  

My bet is that there are no more meetings going forward on how to respond post bankruptcy until the actual bankruptcy is finished.  I'm sure BSA is probably not happy 455+ people on the call heard their plans to merge councils and freeze pensions.

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Any 

26 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

My bet is that there are no more meetings going forward on how to respond post bankruptcy until the actual bankruptcy is finished.  I'm sure BSA is probably not happy 455+ people on the call heard their plans to merge councils and freeze pensions.

Any discussion at all about how they plan to accomplish all those mergers, as BSA has said throughout this process, and how has been pretty well established, LCs are independent non profits.  Each LC board would have to decide to dissolve itself as a corporation and agree to join whatever corporation is being set up.  That's not going to be popular with LCs that are solvent and have just gone through a lot of pain and paid a lot of money into a plan that they're told was designed to protect them.

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21 minutes ago, T2Eagle said:

Any discussion at all about how they plan to accomplish all those mergers, as BSA has said throughout this process, and how has been pretty well established, LCs are independent non profits.  Each LC board would have to decide to dissolve itself as a corporation and agree to join whatever corporation is being set up.  That's not going to be popular with LCs that are solvent and have just gone through a lot of pain and paid a lot of money into a plan that they're told was designed to protect them.

No details, just PPT level info.  10 regions, 8 councils by region and the statement in a note "preemptive consolidation". 

Edit ... They also had a statement about too much collaboration slows us down.  Take that as a sign on how this will be  done.

Edited by Eagle1993
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Remember back when we discussed here that we were shocked BSA allowed the Bates report to be filed on the docket.  We thought it was good to have in mediation, but surprised they put it on the record.  Now that is an issue.  BSA and others are attempting to prevent the Bates report from being in evidence.  AIG is attempting to get that in.  Why?  Because AIG is saying they don't need to provide anything as everyone is paid in full per BSA (Bate's report).

Take this in addition to the Hartford deal as bad moves by the BSA.  This isn't 20/20 hindsight ... we called this out immediately after the filing that it was likely a mistake.  

Now, I have no idea if it will have any impact, but it is currently causing issues.

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4 hours ago, MYCVAStory said:

DANGER WILL ROBINSON!  "Recording, photographing, or live streaming of this hearing is prohibited."  And yes, is breaking the law.  BUT...after it's all over you can request an audio recording from the court.  We need one of those cool court artists!

Didn't Kosnoff get in trouble for tweeting what was going on during one of the hearings?

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2 minutes ago, PaleRider said:

Didn't Kosnoff get in trouble for tweeting what was going on during one of the hearings?

He was live tweeting a deposition and exposing info that may have been privileged.  Apparently, someone was on video taking cellphone pictures today of the hearing.  

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2 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

it is almost as if AIG is laying out a case that BSA is attempting to dump most of the cost on insurers, sandbag their current financial situation and then post bankruptcy, show major cost savings and big donors to quickly recover (while insurance bares the brunt of the cost).  AIG also spent a lot of time indicating the Coalition essential wrote the TDPs.  

Foundation for appeal is being laid.

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Just now, ThenNow said:

Foundation for appeal is being laid.

I expect much of the hearing will be laying foundations for appeal.  JLSS will approve this plan.  I expect most know that.

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1 minute ago, Eagle1993 said:

Apparently, someone was on video taking cellphone pictures today of the hearing.  

Ninja hit. Logged on, took photos of the participants during the brief recess and logged off.

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1 minute ago, Eagle1993 said:

I expect much of the hearing will be laying foundations for appeal.  JLSS will approve this plan.  I expect most know that.

Yup. I was speaking to the substance of your post for those who may not naturally tie that timber hitch. 

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Missed this morning so far.

Yesterday ... my takeaways.

  • Bankruptcy
    • US Trustee's path is clear .... go after the fact that some releases are being given with no contribution.  One of their arguments will appear to be the releases are too broad.  
    • The Guam group ... confusion. I wasn't following closely but a lot of objections and it seemed like she was just rehashing prior discussions.
    • AIG & certain insurers ... their path is that the Bates report proves no further insurance settlements are required as the plan was fully funded without them.  They will argue the TDPs should be reduced.
  • BSA Post bankruptcy
    • I wasn't expecting this would be covered
    • A lot of focus on WHY certain changes were made to the Philmont executive committee power point slide deck.
      • Why was the quote from Eisenhower removed ... "who is BSA at war with"
      • Why was $400M removed from the donor list ... 
      • Why was 250 to 80 councils removed and changed.
      • COs ... major changes could exist (admitted we need updated agreements and ability to have meeting spaces without COs)
      • Etc.
    • Certain insurers seem to be preparing an argument that BSA has clear plans to raise money and reduce costs (it was confirmed in court that BSA agrees we have too many camps (not bases).  
      • So ... if BSA has these great plans (that were not in their business plan) then they should be able to cover more costs of the bankruptcy (my speculation as to why AIG went after this line of attack

As discussed earlier, I believe JLSS will likely confirm this plan as is or with minor changes.  However, district court could reject it and these groups are preparing lines of appeal.

To me ... the good news is that National BSA is aware of the membership, CO and financial situation they face post bankruptcy and they plan to address it head on.  There was slides about what services councils will get from National vs what they can provide locally.  National wants to make sure all $ that they get from councils is spent on program and not wasted.  They had a slide about building trust with councils.  However, it also appears they (National) know they cannot wait for 250 councils and 10,000s of volunteers to come to a consensus.  I expect they will have to force changes to survive.  I just hope it is transparent and not hidden in questionable surveys.

 

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35 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

I expect they will have to force changes to survive.  I just hope it is transparent and not hidden in questionable surveys.

Do you honestly believe national will be transparent and not hide stuff in questionable surveys? I am still waiting to see the MEMBER (emphasis) survey results from 2017. And even if they did not hide the results, would they listen? I remember the 2014/15 Eagle Palm Survey where  94%  WERE OPPOSED to Instapalms, specifically 78% STRONGLY AGAINST and 16% Against. Yet we have them now( bold, underlining,  and caps for major emphasis).

Edited by Eagle94-A1
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