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Now, when did it actually work?

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Your post just proves my point, maybe if you had gone to college your statements would not come off so ill informed and unintelligent.



I have repeatly have shared my troop successes using the program and supplementing it with some original ideas and all you do is criticize, so go do your thing and I will do mine.



I am interested in what you have to share with us. If you just ignore Bob and TP they will go away eventually. I hope you read my earlier posts about some ideas I and eagledad use in our own troops. There are a lot of free thinkers in here, Bob is just not one of them.

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Just for the record:

Backpacker writes "I have repeatly have shared my troop successes using the program and supplementing it with some original ideas and all you do is criticize, so go do your thing and I will do mine."


Well I was curious what those successes were. So I went back and read all 53 of his posts.


In 3 posts he talks about his success in Scouting. In one it is about his Venture recruiting success and in two his use of mixed aged Patrols. Thats it!! 3 posts out of 53. So what did he write about the rest of the time.


10 posts he attacks other posters by name.

17 additional posts attack me personally

13 posts are non-scouting related

The remaining 10 posts are of Backerpacker telling other scouts he agrees with them but offering no new information and certainly not sharing any successes.


Where are all these items on successful scouting he says he has posted. I invite others to review just what the contents of his posts have actually been.


So 40% of his posts attack other people, and 75% of his posts are not even Scouting related. Perhaps if you shared more scouting information we might find we agree more than we disagree. But who can tell from just three posts.





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Zahanada I apologize for missing your closing line.


It still does not change my position that it is scoutings program and they have the authority and the responsibility to make changes so that is can be done in a high quality with a proven track record of success and done on a nation release so that evry council and every leader and scout has the same resources. How do you play a nationwide bame if every team is making up its own rules to play by?


What scout unit ever folded from doing things right?



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I have more than once posted how I became "Reactivated" as Unit Leader. So I'm not going to bore with you with that.

There are huge differences in Cub Scouting USA and Cub Scouting UK. I like to think that I'm good at working with kids, so that part was easy. I did go and take all the training that was available and did read all the books. The pack when I stepped in had 18 Cub Scouts. There was no Pack Committee, the CM called meetings with the Den Leaders, as and when she saw the need. As CM she saw Cub Scouting as some sort of Cafeteria program that she and she alone picked what bits the pack was going to follow. I don't know what or how much experience she had or didn't have. I know that when I came along I was new to American Cub Scouting and was too dumb to know any other way than what was laid out in the books or in the training's.

The road wasn't always easy, we went through three Pack Committee chairs. In two years. We had inherited Den Leaders, who didn't like the "New Ideas". Some people were unhappy when the pack started to grow. Some Den Leaders didn't like the idea of the themes they saw it as a way of cramping their styles.

There were lots of bumps along the way. But we managed to get a working Pack Committee and Membership continued to grow. I think the main reason was that the parents of the kids in the pack saw that we were doing stuff and they talked to other parents. When I left the Assistant Cubmaster took over. In time the little guys who had been Tiger Cubs, who for some reason were a group that had stayed together wanted to stay together, so they formed a Troop. As I traveled around the District I heard people say that these guys were doing stuff by the book because they didn't know any other way. The Guy who had been my Assistant Cubmaster was the Scoutmaster, in time the Cubmaster who took over from him joined the troop and a new Cubmaster took over. This past May, they formed a Venture Crew, most of the Crew Members were the little guys who had been in Tiger Cubs. At last count the pack had a little over 60 Cub Scouts, the troop was in the mid 30'S and the Crew had about 15. The pack had 18 Boys in when we started to do things by the book. Sure there were times when we messed up and did have to go back and see what the book said. I think that we were helped by the fact that none of us had any knowledge of the way it was done, no one telling us the "We always do it this way." Or "We don't do it that way."

More than just the boys that came along what I find amazing is how many of the parents have stuck around, not names on paper but really doing stuff. I would love to see some of them come forward and get involved with the District, but they don't want too. They have a great unit and the priest is happy that there are about 100 or so young people in the parish youth program.

As yet the troop has not seen one Lad become an Eagle Scout, I think that next year we might see two or three. They are a super bunch, I love to go back and visit.


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Well Bobby,


If we look at your last 200 posts 99% are insulting, criticizing or out right attacking almost everyone in here. Ed and others are right you just spin things the way you want to. If you consider me pointing these things out to you in my posts as attacks against you then so be it. You are the bully boy here not me, and other than spouting out policy from books you haven't really contributed much of anything positive in all your recent posts, or any of your so called scouting accomplishments, which I believe are really few in quality and quantity. I wonder Bob, are you even active in Scouting or are you just an armchair quarterback?

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What Backpacker just posted is hogwash.

(that's scout leader talk for bald faced lie)

I invite anyone to look at my last 75 posts just as an example. More than 75% of them speak only about the program and either ask or answer a scouting question.


I wish it were more but then I have to post things like this because of other posters allergies to truth.



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You and I both know what I posted was the absolute truth, and if people look at a variety of threads you have posted they will also come to the same conclusion. You know Bob that until an alcoholic or drug addict admits that he has a problem he can never get the help he needs, someday you may be enough of a man to admit to your own hostility towards others and your constant belittling and criticism of everyone who disagrees with you. If that day should ever occur then maybe you will finally be on the road to recovery and become a civil human being capable of dialog instead of diatribes.

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I think that someone here has "Bob Issues". I hate to jump in in the middle of a tift but here goes . . .

I think that Bob is right. I am dealing with a failing pack and it is all due to not following the program. The pack has pretty much thrown away the book and is just getting by. I am hoping to bring this pack back to life. Want to know how? I am going to get them to start using the program. Right now we are just wasting time. The kids are bored by the CM talking every meeting for 30 min. We don't sing, we don't do skits. We go to our little rooms in the church 2 days a month and we get by. I don't want to get by. I want to "Do my Best". Someone in my pack (before I came along) decided that their way was better than the BSA way and what we have now are the results. We might cross over 1 or 2 Webelos. We lose more boys than some of you recruit. I can honestly tell you that this is the reason I am here is to make changes to make the program work but I am on the other side of the coin. I want to change my pack to follow the book, not the other way around because I can tell you for certain that it doesn't work. We need a program to follow or scouting will change with every leader. What good would that do? Why not just let the boys make up a club if that is what you want?


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The word program is thrown around too much where really the word system should be used. The Boy Scout system uses a series of age appropriate programs to develop the finer qualities of a male youth. There are also recruiting programs, running a pack grogram and camping programs. Each individual program is integral to system that develops the child.


No one, not me or Backpacker or any one else of recent memory has expressed that the system does not work. We have not even gone so far as to that say individual programs are failing. But within each individual program there may be opportunities for changes that would enhance the overall experience for the child or make an individual program more efficient to run.


Flat tire example:

You get a flat tire, go to install the donut spare only to learn that the air has leaked out. Silly you the program says that if you checked your tire pressure monthly you would be almost assured of this not happening. Yes the program is correct. But being a chauffer for three kids, a member of this group and that, I only checked it once every six months.


Now what-if the manufacturer switched to a foam filled spare? There would be no need to check for air leaking out since there is none. The first down side may be cost, can that be over come? Certainly the spare would still need to be inspected for gashes or damage from road debris. What would the inspection interval be? Is there a net improvement. And so-on. .


The point is not that the system of Boy Scouting is under attack. It is not. It is a great System.


In case you missed it BOY SCOUTING IS A GREAT SYSTEM.


But a critical evaluation of individual programs should be allowed without retribution on a public forum


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"Certainly the spare would still need to be inspected for gashes or damage from road debris. What would the inspection interval be?"


And who will do that? Certainly not the driver you discussed. Thay didn't make time to check the pressure why would they make time suddenly to inspect the entire tire? If they had done what the manufacturer had instructed them to do they would have had less work and fewer problems.


Your example is a good one. Our driver had no need for the manufacturer to change things, and in fact the drivers solution was more work than if they had followed the manufacturers program.

Plus, the foam filled tire does not ride as smoothly, and does not perform as well, as the manufacturers air filled tire. So your change was no improvement at all. It was a momentary fix that requires you to still repair the damage at some point and return to the manufacturers program or expect to have the problem again.


So you see the tire design should be left to the people who are trained to do that. Your part was to drive the car, not to worry about how to re-engineer its components.


The BSA calls it a "program" since it is theirs I suppose they have the right to call it what they want.


If no one disagrees that the program works, then you do so many posters not follow the program?

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Program changed did it work?


My son has his Scoutmaster Conference tonight for Life. He finished his Life project last Sunday, and the write up of the project. The write up includes copies of the thank you letters for the 6 people he called to donate money for this project. A write up of who helped and how long. Issues he had with the project. List of supplies and cost. Pictures of the project being built and pictures of the completed project.

During the time he was a Star Scout he had put in over 30 hours of service hours for 4 Eagle projects, and 2 Life projects.

He had been Troop Instructor for the last 12 months, doing everything that was asked of him to fulfill this POR.


After his life project was complete I noticed a change in him, joking around more with the adults in the troop, a little more outgoing.


Did the change/added requirements work?


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