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Unit Recharter Struggles


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3 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Agreed...which begs the question, why even be a Scout leader, if this is the case?

That's partly why I'm no longer a scout leader. As far as forming a board, if it is a board formed of local families, then you are the board. If someone wants to sue, they are not suing a valued community institution with long term stature like a church or service organization, which might give them pause, they are suing a random group of adults. 

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The issue both he and I highlighted was the fact that BSA at all levels "knew or should of known" the imminent threat of CSA throughout the organization. The documented knowledge of that irrefutable e

You make several interesting points: Traditionally, we know from observation that the majority of chartered organizations have acted more in the role of a benevolent landlord rather than treating

Makes sense.  Dioceses are independent businesses with their own lawyers AND their own state oversight requirements.  For example, my diocese has legal reporting requirements to the state AG as part o

1 minute ago, yknot said:

That's partly why I'm no longer a scout leader. As far as forming a board, if it is a board formed of local families, then you are the board. If someone wants to sue, they are not suing a valued community institution with long term stature like a church or service organization, which might give them pause, they are suing a random group of adults. 

They'd still be suing a non-profit with no assets (except camping gear and a paltry bank account)... officers of those organizations cannot be held liable for things other than what was listed above, which is tantamount to criminal behavior anyway...

 

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26 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

They'd still be suing a non-profit with no assets (except camping gear and a paltry bank account)... officers of those organizations cannot be held liable for things other than what was listed above, which is tantamount to criminal behavior anyway...

 

Think about what scouters do with other peoples' children and where they do it with them. It doesn't take much to prove willful negligence on the part of a scouter or a CO in the event a child is injured on an outing. Weather is a big one. Scouters who proudly, publicly, and recklessly claim they never cancel a camp out...  

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7 minutes ago, yknot said:

Think about what scouters do with other peoples' children and where they do it with them. It doesn't take much to prove willful negligence on the part of a scouter or a CO in the event a child is injured on an outing. Weather is a big one. Scouters who proudly, publicly, and recklessly claim they never cancel a camp out...  

Agreed.  That is why I am such a jerk about every BSA policy, planning, swim checks, permission slips, medical forms, etc., etc., etc.  There is a fairly high price (in time required) for due diligence.

Scouts who do not abide by instructions and discipline do not last long in our Troop.  If you do not do as you are told (in matters of health and safety), then I refuse to take you into the woods...

Firm but fair...

Due diligence begins before you even depart for the trip.

So, @yknot have you ever been sued for something Scouting related?

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1 hour ago, SiouxRanger said:

To what end? How would that help?

 

Other than I have a contact at the NCCS who may be interested and able to assist 

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2 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

So, @yknot have you ever been sued for something Scouting related?

Lawsuits are like IRS audits ... directly proportional to money involved and how easy to pursue. This is not a realistic risk for the average joe.  Higher risk for being sued for negligence by your kid driving your car.  ... Different story if you have 100 million personal wealth.

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1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Agreed.  That is why I am such a jerk about every BSA policy, planning, swim checks, permission slips, medical forms, etc., etc., etc.  There is a fairly high price (in time required) for due diligence.

Scouts who do not abide by instructions and discipline do not last long in our Troop.  If you do not do as you are told (in matters of health and safety), then I refuse to take you into the woods...

Firm but fair...

Due diligence begins before you even depart for the trip.

So, @yknot have you ever been sued for something Scouting related?

No. My nickname is the fun police. My concerns about youth safety and commitment to best practices equal yours.

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53 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

Lawsuits are like IRS audits ... directly proportional to money involved and how easy to pursue. This is not a realistic risk for the average joe.  Higher risk for being sued for negligence by your kid driving your car.  ... Different story if you have 100 million personal wealth.

Most of the threatened legal actions I've been involved with have been frivolous . It's usually been someone angry that they've been thwarted in some way. Parents who think a unit setting minimum standards for leadership roles is arbitrary and getting in the way of their scout achieving Eagle and the economic impact that will have on their college prospects and future career success. Someone with personality issues whose membership is refused. They don't have to be gunning for your house or think you are Bill Gates. You can still spend a couple years in court hearings until it's dismissed at great personal cost to you. 

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Interesting discussion.  I am reminded of another FB discussion I was in. One Scout parent (Cub Scouts, actually) started things off by asking about camp lighting. Coleman gas lanterns?  Batteries?  Propane lantern?  What do Packs use?  Discussion devolved into safety issues, hot things, economics, battery depletion, how bright....  One parent noted that their Cubs were helions, and not to be trusted around flames. Open flames and misbehaving Cubs became an issue.  I mentioned how waaaay back when, we used kerosene lamps, fireplaces, propane stoves  during hurricane power outages. That parents TAUGHT their kids to respect  flames.  One should LEARN how to never have to say "I thought I put it out...."    The Scout learns from the example of the adult better than the instruction.   

I hope and pray your Scouts choose their parents wisely.... 

 

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6 minutes ago, SSScout said:

I hope and pray your Scouts choose their parents wisely.... 

If only...  this is one of the greatest tragedies of life 😜

My children chose an absolutely wonderful mother!!  Father?...meh  🙄

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19 hours ago, yknot said:

Think about what scouters do with other peoples' children and where they do it with them. It doesn't take much to prove willful negligence on the part of a scouter or a CO in the event a child is injured on an outing. Weather is a big one. Scouters who proudly, publicly, and recklessly claim they never cancel a camp out...  

Try to get the professionals and the upper level volunteers to follow he BSA rules is hard enough. My most scary answer i am given often is is no one has been hurt. .

My reply is YET.

 

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1 hour ago, jcousino said:

Try to get the professionals and the upper level volunteers to follow he BSA rules is hard enough. My most scary answer i am given often is is no one has been hurt. .

My reply is YET.

 

Don't remind me.

I know of a council that is doing a dodgeball tournament as a fundraiser. I almost asked if they knew Dodgeball has been banned by the BSA since 2018, but decided to stay out of it. However some volunteers are questioning why the council can have a Dodgeball tourney, but the units cannot.

 

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Changed "also" to "almost"
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Got to be careful

I got told that i use to much of the councils time having to deals with my  safety concerns  and youth management issues and i have been banded  from any activities outside of my unit.

john

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, jcousino said:

 

Got to be careful

I got told that i use to much of the councils time having to deals with my  safety concerns  and youth management issues and i have been banded  from any activities outside of my unit.

john

 

 

 

John,

I am in the same boat...lol

But I still file incident reports whenever any of our youth attend district/council events, and there is gross buffoonery going on...

(OA and NYLT)

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4 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

John,

I am in the same boat...lol

But I still file incident reports whenever any of our youth attend district/council events, and there is gross buffoonery going on...

(OA and NYLT)

 

4 hours ago, jcousino said:

 

Got to be careful

I got told that i use to much of the councils time having to deals with my  safety concerns  and youth management issues and i have been banded  from any activities outside of my unit.

john

 

 

 

This is where I am stuck. If we know gross buffoonery and safety issues are STILL occurring after being sued into bankrutpcy, why are we trying so hard to save this organization? Can it be saved? A small part of me thinks it's possible, and that's why I'm still here, but why should any volunteer have to fight so hard to keep kids safe in a 100 year old youth organization? 

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