When did it not work?

[eagle90 125]

PN Scouter, you read my mind. Our troop never used the new scout patrol idea, but rather integrated new scouts into existing patrols. Wwe decided to try the new scout patrol one year when we had 8 or so new Webeloes. We did it "by the book", with an ASM assigned to them and a guide. After being in the troop for six months, it was time to integrate these new boys into patrols for summer camp. When doing this, we came to find out our PLC did not even know which scout was which. "Is he the blond kid?" Is he the chubby little one?" On the other hand, the new scouts and their parents felt they were not a part of the group and we lost many of them. Maybe we could have done some things different, but to us, the program did not work.

 

[Bob White 20]

"it was time to integrate these new boys into patrols for summer camp."

 

I'm sorry, what does that mean?

 

You took a 12 to 14th program and ended it in 6 months and suddenly it didn't work?

 

Where did you get the idea that "it was time" after only 6 months. Why couldn't they go to summer camp without being "integrated"?

 

As far as not knowing the boys. Is there anything in the methods of scouting that kept the scouts from getting to know each other.

 

They never sat around a campfire together, played games together, worked on service projects together, attended PLCs, were introduced to junior leaders by the Troop Guide?

 

You see them not integrating into other patrols well as a BSA problem, when it is the BSA telling you that they won't integrate well until they have more skills and more in common as they age. Yet you mix them after only six months and blame the program for not working?

 

You didn't say anything about the program not working WHILE you followed the program. It wasn't until you deviated after only 6 months that you had a problem.

 

This was the BSA's doing? How?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Eagledad 2777]

Happy Friday all

 

>>But Eamonn points out the biggest problem we face. When a unit is in trouble, it always boils down to someone not following the methods.

[evmori 11]

You're fighting a losing battle! According to Bob, the BSA is never wrong and his interpretation of what the BSA says & does is always correct! This thread is a set up! Run away!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White 20]

"This thread is a set up! Run away!"

I can think of no one better suited to lead the retreat.

 

This is not a set-up. It is an open opportunity to prove that you used the program, not just the program titles, and did not get positive results.

 

Eagle dad is the only one to even come close to an example but only ran into problems when he stopped using the program not during the time he used it.

 

This is no trap. This is evidence the methods work. We have plenty of examples that not using the methods fail.

[evmori 11]

This is a BIG trap, Bob! No matter what anyone posts you will dismiss it as not on topic or spin it to prove it wrong even if it isn't!

 

Let me ask you - How do you measure if the program works?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White 20]

Sorry, if you missed that recent post Ed.

 

"The scouting program is the interaction of the Scouting methods for the goal of achieving the aims and mission."

 

The scouting program is the journey not the destination. There are other programs that teach fitness, sharacter and citizenship, but they are ot Scouting programs. What makes it scouting is the program methods.

 

How do you measure it? One real good way is self evaluation by comparing what you do, with what you are supposed to be doing.

 

There are several common elements of a successful units. They have been posted here before. You will find them easily in a thread search.

 

BW

 

[River2K 10]

The PLC.

 

Our Scouts meet once a month for a PLC. They are supposed to fine tune the following month's meeting plans and then plan a rough outline of the month after that (which all follows a yearly plan done in May). The SPL has no idea what to do, even after being given several suggestions by adults. The ASPL usually takes over the meeting and tells the rest what the plan will be. The Scribe takes few notes, if any. Nobody ever sees the scribe's notes after the meeting. Campouts & other activities are given little if any consideration. The Troop would quickly fall apart without adult intervention.

 

The PL's don't come to the PLC with any feedback from their patrols because when they ask for feedback they get "I don't know". Patrol members know they have control over meeting plans & activities through the feedback but don't seem to care.

 

 

They plan the same games, same skill instructions, some opening/closing every month. The only time things change is when the SM or ASM get involved.

 

I think we're following the program but it's not making the Scouts care or take ownership of their Troop. All leadership has gone through JLT at least once. Some more than once.

 

Our COR is pushing for a venture patrol to keep the older Scouts involved.

 

Ken

[Bob White 20]

Eagledad,

I would agree that a VENTURE patrol when done in the way you describe will not work. I also have seen it done that way and fail. But I have have seen it done correctly and succeed. The difference. The way you have seen it fail is not the scout method. Check out the Scoutmasters Handbook and you will see that the Venture patrol is to have an assigned ASM to oversee the program, few if any troops ever do that. It is to have its own troop program. How often did you see that done. It has its own additional recognition program. Did you see a unit do that?

 

Finally do you really believe that changing the name will bring success. If you always do, what you have always done, you will always get what you always got. No matter what you label it.

 

BW(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[evmori 11]

To know if something works you have to be able to measure it. How do you do that, Bob? How do you, Bob White, measure if the program works? Your previous answer was not a measurement.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Its Me 10]

Ed careful since that question has already been directed at Bob and he supplied only a rhetorical answer there only two likely ends to this:

 

1) Bob retreats and resorts to lurking and sending private messages for several months as he did over the summer

2) The moderator fearing that Bob has he gotten in over his head and will soon retreat, locks the thread.

 

Like a dear Abby column I enjoy reading Bobs replies. They are simple and to the point follow the program. There is nothing wrong with that type of advice. Its similar to a golf pro instructing you to keep head down and follow-through. Simple right?

 

But like a moth to the flame I cant resist:

 

Bob, I started out with 8 boys in my wolf den and seven made it to rank. One did not manly because the mother did not have the time or the interest to bring the boy to the pack and den meetings. Was my program successful?

 

 

 

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Its Me,

 

I know sometimes people can say things they dont mean, or maybe they do. Can you show me where any Moderator of this forum has sided with Bob White to the measure of closing a thread in his defense?

 

I would like to think Hops and I do a good job, but am always open to the thoughts from others

 

[OldGreyEagle 5]

(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[Eagledad 2777]

>>Handbook and you will see that the Venture patrol is to have an assigned ASM to oversee the program, few if any troops ever do that. It is to have its own troop program.

[Its Me 10]

"Its Me,

 

Can you show me where any Moderator of this forum has sided with Bob White to the measure of closing a thread in his defense? "

 

Specifically No. Although at first some threads were locked possibly prematurely, the lost scout thread comes to mind. In general the moderators of this form do and outstanding job of letting the threads run their natural course. Keep up the good work.