Square knots and multiple positions

[Armymutt 217]

We have a Den Leader who is chartered as a committee member due to our size.  Would he be eligible for the DL knot, or will he need to be on the charter in that position?

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

Whatever they are registered on the charter as  is the award they work on.

[skeptic 992]

I believe if he is listed on the charter as both a DL and Committee, then he can work on the DL stuff.  He is just duel registered.  Benn a while though since I was involved with these things directly.

[scoutldr 726]

The first requirement states, "Complete one year as a registered Den Leader..."

[InquisitiveScouter 1653]

You cannot register as a Committee Member and Den Leader in the same unit...

But, we all know people who fill both of those roles.  I assume this is for the Den Leader Training Award?

https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Den-Leader-Training-Award-511-052_WB.pdf

If your member has been doing the job of a Den Leader (even while registered as an MC), and has fulfilled the training and performance requirements, then talk to your District Training Chair and make the case for them to get the knot.  Ask if the District Training Chair would approve the award in that case.  The answer may be "No" because of the "registered" requirement, but it might be "Yes, sure thing!" 

[SiouxRanger 490]

So, I've made this argument before.

So, as I understand the issue is that we have an individual who has taken on TWO jobs as scouting volunteer, done one (perhaps both) well and is going to be DENIED performance recognition because of being double (triple, quadruple…) registered?

Seriously?

Who thinks up this trash?

Being DESPERATE for volunteers, Scouting has rules to insult them?

There are folks who can perform 2 or 3 or 4 Scouting unit, district, and council positions simultaneously in great form.  I personally know many.

I have held so many positions, at so many levels, for so long, many overlapping, and I have no interest in applying for whatever knots I might qualify for. I don't need any such motivation.

(Anyone here getting a knot for the untold hours of reading and replying to posts on this forum? Yet we do it.  No knot needed.)

But, recognition is important to some to encourage their continued leadership.  But, instead there are rules to defeat recognizing them for their efforts.

Hmmmm.

[SiouxRanger 490]

On the other hand, if National allows someone to register for 5 positions, is that not an implied recognition of that person's right to earn the recognitions applicable to each of those positions?

And on another front, Tom, multi registered, works himself silly, completes the recognition requirements for 3 of his 5 registered positions, though awarding them all would violate some rule(s), nevertheless, receives all 3 recognition awards.

A lawyer's first question will be, "So what is the damage?"

And a wholly insufficient answer is, "Well, he violated rules, though he works harder now as a volunteer than ever."  There is no damage. So, even if a rule violation, there is no remedy.  And the purpose of lawsuits (litigation) is to determine breaches of some standard, the amount of $$$ damages caused by the violation, and award $$$ damages to the injured party.

A non-monetary remedy is an injunction.  "We don't want Tom to hold 5 jobs simultaneously-yeah, he does fine-but cut him back to 1 job."

We really want to discourage volunteers?

 

[SiouxRanger 490]

The goal is to get kids in the door, turn them into Scouts, with trained adult leaders, and teach them while they are having fun, learning life skills, and building relationships, in a safe environment.

Any rules that get in the way of that, are obstructions.