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Former Youth Protection Director on the dangers in Scouts BSA


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9 minutes ago, MikeS72 said:

There are times that I think many scouts think the 72 hour rule is the minimum time between showers when at summer camp.

What do you mean by, “showers/showering at summer camp”? 

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I don't think anyone said that.  What they said is that we shouldn't just do weekly meetings and eliminate the outdoor program.  Honestly, scouting without an outdoor program is not scouting ... its s

I second all of that. Factor in this little story, as well. Add it to the consideration of “who [you] are dealing with” and “Don’t send your Eagle badge back to National. It does not seem to care.” Yo

Not replacing MJ with another external CSA expert is a disaster of a decision.  It is fueling the anger in each of these speeches.  If MJ wasn't working out, they should have hired a new CSA external

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Just now, ThenNow said:

What do you mean by, “showers/showering at summer camp”? 

Meaning some scout will not take a shower any more often that every 72 hours. I think that is a generous count, some will try to make through the entire week. 

As I have heard often, swimming is not showering/bathing. 

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1 minute ago, HelpfulTracks said:

Meaning some scout will not take a shower any more often that every 72 hours. I think that is a generous count, some will try to make through the entire week. 

As I have heard often, swimming is not showering/bathing. 

Again, where is my, “You missed the joke, my brother,” emoji? ;) 

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2 minutes ago, HelpfulTracks said:

Meaning some scout will not take a shower any more often that every 72 hours. I think that is a generous count, some will try to make through the entire week. 

As I have heard often, swimming is not showering/bathing. 

Some will try, few will succeed.  No shower Friday night, momma better be driving to camp to pick you up - not getting back in my car!

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WOW!! I go away for a couple meetings and lunch and the board explodes.

Questioning what was meant by greater than 50% of reported cases is relevant, pertinent, even critical if we are to understand what constitutes abuse and how to prevent it. 

I have gone back and read (quickly, want to read a couple more times at least) both Vieths paper and some of the CDC papers on child abuse. 

Even they have conflicting information on what the threshold of appropriate, including some of the things that have been discussed here, like talking about sex, risque jokes etc. 

I want to address some specific post directly, but a couple of notes. 

I don't think flaming other posters and hyperbole does anything to help the discussion, in fact all it does is shut it down. If the goal is prevent CSA then discussion is needed, not trying to shut down those you disagree with. 

As for releasing the data, again what data needs to be released needs to be defined. A bulk dump of data would be irresponsible. 

Edited by HelpfulTracks
really bad typo
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I think one of the more interesting concepts that came out of Michael Johnson's statements was for the first time a senior member of BSA ackowledged that Scouting is a high risk activity when it comes to predators and child abuse. We've talked about it here on the forum but BSA has not even wanted to discuss that although it is pretty clearly a reality. I thought Vieth's outlining in black and white some of the reasons why was useful. It's why BSA can't defend itself by saying we are doing what everyone else is doing and more regarding YPT. The baseline for scouting has to be higher because of what it does, where, and with who. 

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19 minutes ago, MikeS72 said:

Some will try, few will succeed.  No shower Friday night, momma better be driving to camp to pick you up - not getting back in my car!

That and the one set of dirty cloths they have rides on top of the vehicle. 

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7 minutes ago, HelpfulTracks said:

I think that the words “These allegations represents reports of abuse between an alleged victim and an alleged abused” would all that would be necessary. 

Edited by johnsch322
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Alright folks, I know the issues get emotional but we need to stay focused on the conversation specific to this thread.  If someone says something in this thread, reply in the context of this thread, please do not turn a comment here into a generic response to a user's previous postings or the conversations happening in other threads. 

 

I've hidden a bunch of posts, and I'll be going back and hiding a few more.  If you think I've hidden something unfairly, please email the moderator staff and other eyes can review my decision.

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Moderators: You know I LOVE to banter, bloviate and blather, but I think we are getting nowhere (slowly) and some are reacting so quickly that substantive comments by some who are being thoughtful (even agreeing) are getting buried under the frenzy. I like it, but how to reign it in a smidgeon? Send it to a tag-team cage match thread? I think there’s a lot of “let’s wait and see” that we need to agree to adopt. Just me. I want to hear more about the 72 hour food drop experience. I’m intrigued.

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3 hours ago, DeaconLance said:

I guess I am flabbergasted that after all this the BSA and every state isn’t requiring background checks and clearances.  6 years ago Pennsylvania by law requires any one 18 and above involved with youth organizations to have:

1.  A State Police background check

2.  PA Childline clearance (no accusations of abuse)

3.  If you have not lived in PA for 10 years FBI background check.

And the State Police Check and Child Abuse check are free...the FBI fingerprint check is about $25.  If you are a PA resident for 10 years, you turn in an affidavit of such and that you have not been convicted of a list of child abuse charges...

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23 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:
30 minutes ago, HelpfulTracks said:

That and the one set of dirty cloths they have rides on top of the vehicle. 

I think that the words “These allegations represents reports of abuse between an alleged victim and an alleged abused” would all that would be necessary. 

Again, not sure why you quoted me, particularly on joking comment about dirty cloths at camp.

But to answer you.

Hardly. 

The CDC which has been referenced here and in yesterdays presser as good source on prevent CSA see Risqué jokes as inappropriate and harmful. 

Accordingly, it is entirely plausible that that makes up some portion of the 50%. 

In addition Vieth list items that are considered developmentally appropriate sexual behaviors in adolescence and teenagers, that would violate BSA policy and send some parents into a tizzy, like sexually explicit talk with peers, Obscenity/jokes, foreplay, even intercourse with consenting partner.

I don't think you seriously believe all of those are on the same level, let alone on par with sexual assault. 

Not to mention, what constitutes that 50%, what ages, age difference, locations and situations are involved would be required to determine how to prevent them in the future. 

 

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3 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

How many actually do? Close to zero. My COR wouldn't know any of my ASMs to look at.

Our COR has a Scout in the Troop, and camps with us regularly...is on the Board of the Church...very involved guy, and really makes the CO-Troop relationship strong - best I have seen in 35+ years of Scouting...

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