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Former Youth Protection Director on the dangers in Scouts BSA


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11 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

So guess what friends having curious private discussions is not sex abuse and I am 99.9% sure that no one has called that as such.  But this is what I mean by minimalizing by alluding to curious private discussion as being part of a 50% figure.  

In a world where a large chunk of the US population still doesn't think kids should be taught anything about sex other than "Don't do it" I am certain there's parents who would assume the ONLY way such a conversation could happen would be if their "precious innocent child" was having knowledge of sex forced upon them by another youth.  This is how we get prosecutions for rape when 13-15 year olds are having consensual sex.

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I don't think anyone said that.  What they said is that we shouldn't just do weekly meetings and eliminate the outdoor program.  Honestly, scouting without an outdoor program is not scouting ... its s

You need to slow down and take a few breaths between reading and typing, you aren't even responding to the right point of outrage here. Eagledad was talking about the Scouting program and the pat

As you to which you allude, it was a stupid decision.  He should have been one of the very last to go before turning off the lights for the final time.

17 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

So guess what friends having curious private discussions is not sex abuse and I am 99.9% sure that no one has called that as such.  But this is what I mean by minimalizing by alluding to curious private discussion as being part of a 50% figure.  

Actually, yes. I dealt with an instance of a parent calling that CSA. I’m certain that I’m not the first person to face that situation.

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4 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Actually, yes. I dealt with an instance of a parent calling that CSA. I’m certain that I’m not the first person to face that situation.

And guess what? That would probably be determined by BSA to be unsubstantiated or otherwise dismissed.

Of course, we'll never know because BSA refuses to release the data.

But that's OK, the court is going to order them to do so in the future.

Or are you still of the opinion we need to get rid of civil litigation/deny sexual abuse victims of their day in court in order to convince BSA it should report this data?

On 10/12/2021 at 12:50 PM, qwazse said:

Another harsh reality: if we really want to promote transparent reporting, we have to remove the threat of litigation. More carrots, fewer sticks.

 

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10 minutes ago, elitts said:

In a world where a large chunk of the US population still doesn't think kids should be taught anything about sex other than "Don't do it" I am certain there's parents who would assume the ONLY way such a conversation could happen would be if their "precious innocent child" was having knowledge of sex forced upon them by another youth.  This is how we get prosecutions for rape when 13-15 year olds are having consensual sex.

Those discussions will happen no matter how much sex education is taught (and I am in favor of more sex education).  Todays children are exposed to much more sex than obviously when I was growing up.  Average 13 to 15 year old I am sure knows more about the mechanics of sex than I did.  There is much more consensual sex between 13 to 15 year old children then ever before.  Unfortunately my first sexual encounter was with 2 20 year old boys/men and it was not consensual. The real child sex abuse is from sex predators and predators are not having consensual sex. 

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The issue is that we are trying to combat the actual real world exposure kids have to way too much questionable activity and the simple youth interchange.  Yes, we need to find ways to make it better, but we also cannot stop the exposure completely unless we put them all in those roll around bubbles or something.  And nothing will ever completely fix it.

 

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1 hour ago, Eagledad said:

Patrol Method has proven itself over 100  years all over the world. To break that up because of a very broad blanket statement that that 50% of the BSA abuse cases are from youth would be ridiculous.

Having spent about 8.5 years in Scouting - I was a disgruntled and unchallenged Cub, etc. and ditched it early on until I could join Boy Scouts. I could not abide a Den Mother. Sorry - I can’t image the absence of the Patrol Method. This has nothing to do with my thoughts and commentary on YPT, just the nature of Scouting for me. I, too, am keen to see the data on this 50/50 assertion. Not saying I don’t buy it, but all of the info needs to be made available by someone. Back to Mr. Johnson’s Mr. Anderson, I’m wondering if MJ has a file or ten full of stuff on which he needed legal cover prior to full release. Dunno. My brain is overactive, but from my experience and training, that is a logical step. He made a bunch of allegations to be walking out on a newly ice-over, frozen looking pond. Meesa wondering, not saying it’s so. Just sayin...

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1 hour ago, johnsch322 said:

So are you saying that an experts knowledge is not true based on your experienced opinion?  

I think what @Eagledadwas saying is how much of that 50% number is what immediately comes to mind when the term sexual abuse is used, and how much of it is a couple of 11 or 12 year olds who got caught comparing development in the shower house at summer camp.  Without that breakdown, it is hard to know how to react to that part of the announcement.

I would think that if it is the former, that is very concerning, and may well lead to a 3 tiered program that many other countries use, splitting ScoutsBSA into 2 age distinct groups.

On another note, I fully agreed with the comments about the 72 hour rule.  My first reaction to that policy when announced was why?  Why are we not insisting that any adult who wants to spend time in camp with scouts must be registered, trained, and background checked.

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2 hours ago, Eagledad said:

That is why the knee jerk Zero Tolerance of youth sex abuse reaction from the poster yesterday is so concerning.

And what is wrong with having zero tolerance?  Do you have a figure above zero that would be tolerable?  would you be able to get a room together of 100 youth and tell 1,2,3,4, or 5 of them that they would be sexually abused but that is within our tolerance levels.  Could you stand in front of me and say sorry about your abuse but it is within what we expected for abuse levels?

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26 minutes ago, skeptic said:

Being a fly on the wall, with a recorder of some kind, in any lunch break area in any school, even elementary, might turn ears blue.

My sister was an ELL teacher to international students of various countries of origin. She heard things she’d never heard and never wanted to hear, and she’s two years older than I am. As a Catholic school product, we had a course and book entitled, Becoming A Person. We had an even more detailed marital intimacy course in Catholic prep school. If you didn’t talk with friends, you probably didn’t understand the material and the classes would have been worse for it. I’m sure there’s a line somewhere, but I wouldn’t want to be the one asked to carve it into granite.

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12 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

It is so tiring to see the defend-BSA-at-all-costs crew continue to deny, deflect, obfuscate.

Got to keep those campfires burning I guess.

When emotional reason doesn't fix minds, resort to denigrating. Shesh. 

Barry

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3 minutes ago, MikeS72 said:

I think what @Eagledadwas saying is how much of that 50% number is what immediately comes to mind when the term sexual abuse is used, and how much of it is a couple of 11 or 12 year olds who got caught comparing development in the shower house at summer camp. 

I am pretty sure we are not talking about hey mine is bigger than yours LOL between boys.

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5 minutes ago, MikeS72 said:

I would think that if it is the former, that is very concerning, and may well lead to a 3 tiered program that many other countries use, splitting ScoutsBSA into 2 age distinct groups.

Many/most counties go 3 tier and make the third tier go past 21. If that's what it takes, that's what it takes.

2 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

When emotional reason doesn't fix minds, resort to denigrating. Shesh. 

Barry

No one is talking about reporting data about scouts saying the word "sex" in a tent. That's a straw man that is getting conjured up.

There is a GIANT difference between what I (and the TCC and BSA) are calling Tier 1 sexual abuse involving acts that I cannot even DESCRIBE here and scouts saying the word sex in a tent.

You want me to get graphic? I can stop saying "Tier 1" and we can start to get into specifics. The mods have asked me not to, but since you all seem to want to use that to make it seem like that all that is being talked about is "scouts saying the word "Sex" in a tent" maybe that rule needs to get reviewed.

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1 minute ago, ThenNow said:

This must be an edict implemented after I hit the road. In my day, it was either the 5 seconds or 10 second rule, depending how choice the morsel was that slipped from one’s grasp or spork or picnic table or mess kit. I once saw a kid scrape off a piece of steak after it hit the dirt and lay there for a good 8 seconds. He was almost at the limit, but under the wire. In 72 hours the coons woulda got it, no doubt. 

I have known many a scout for whom 72 hours would be no barrier to eating something that the racoon would turn it's nose up at.  There are times that I think many scouts think the 72 hour rule is the minimum time between showers when at summer camp.  😏

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