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Life Without the CO's?


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Wow! You guys are true blue. You buy insurance coverage for yourselves just to volunteer to serve?  Are your wives on board with it? If I was your best friend I’d take you out for a beer and a heart to heart. 

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17 hours ago, Muttsy said:

Wow! You guys are true blue. You buy insurance coverage for yourselves just to volunteer to serve?  Are your wives on board with it? If I was your best friend I’d take you out for a beer and a heart to heart. 

I took out an umbrella policy because of all the kid related things I was doing: scouting, coaching, driving kids on field trips, etc. 

I recommend to anyone involved in kid programs to get the coverage. It's relatively cheap, whereas when kids get hurt it's very expensive..

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17 hours ago, Muttsy said:

Wow! You guys are true blue. You buy insurance coverage for yourselves just to volunteer to serve?  Are your wives on board with it? If I was your best friend I’d take you out for a beer and a heart to heart. 

I think your wife would be on board with not losing your house. It's not just scouts, it's really any kind of volunteer involvement. I was part of a lawsuit just from being on a board of a volunteer organization that was sued by a member over its membership policy. It took over a year of hearings, time in court, and a lot of stress before it was eventually thrown out. In scouting, everyone focuses on injuries and abuse, which are of course serious concerns, but you can also be sued for other reasons, like advancement issues. For example in some places, parents are quick to sue if their child's advancement progress is questioned in any way -- parents that want credit for no show leadership positions or family vacation camping nights, etc. 

 

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19 hours ago, Muttsy said:

Wow! You guys are true blue. You buy insurance coverage for yourselves just to volunteer to serve?  Are your wives on board with it? If I was your best friend I’d take you out for a beer and a heart to heart. 

I got my wife involved and WB trained, so yes. But... I volunteer my time with two other non-profits as well. To me, it's about serving youth and helping the rising generation in this country eventually become the controlling generation. Sort of ... "if not me, then who?".

It certainly made me rethink about my continuance in BSA, because you're right... no volunteer should have to take out an umbrella insurance policy to serve in the community. But, if you look around... it seems like everyone has a lawyer on retainer in the off chance they are offended or simply just don't like another person. It seemed prudent at the time...

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On 9/2/2021 at 8:49 PM, Muttsy said:

Wow! You guys are true blue. You buy insurance coverage for yourselves just to volunteer to serve?  Are your wives on board with it? If I was your best friend I’d take you out for a beer and a heart to heart. 

Many people I know at work have an umbrella of at least $1MM and they are not involved in coaching or Scouting. Many sport coaches I know do the same. Friends of my daughters come over to the house all the time. 

It all depends on your level of risk tolerance, future earning potential, and current net worth. Not that I am wealthy, but the fact I have a good salaried job that could be garnished until retirement. Not the future life I am looking forward to. 

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On 9/2/2021 at 8:49 PM, Muttsy said:

If I was your best friend I’d take you out for a beer and a heart to heart. 

What would you talk about? That I should self insure? That I shouldn't volunteer if it involves risk? 

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Of course you should volunteer. As a volunteer I believe you are or were an additional insured on BSA’s policies. If you are volunteering for any group you should be covered on it’s policies or it should be a deal-breaker for you. 

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I think it is very prudent to make sure that you have your own comprehensive personal insurance coverage. CO's thought they were additional insureds only to discover that was not the case. Do you want to risk your home and other assets on the belief that someone else is providing adequate coverage for you?

Also have a frank discussion with your insurance agent about what is and what is not covered.  For example, many Scouters believe that if they followed the safe Scouting guidelines and youth protection guidelines, they would be automatically covered under the BSA. This is not necessarily the case.  Even when you are covered, the BSA insurance represents the BSA first and others secondarily.  There are instances where the two entities may not share the same common interests.

With the recent bankruptcy abuse claims, several Scouters who have been accused of wrong-doing have discovered much to their dismay that they are totally on their own to defend themselves even if they believed that they had followed all guidelines.  Personal umbrella policies may have exclusions for coverage related to sexual abuse allegations.  Defense costs in a sexual abuse allegation can reach into the tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars.  

Also be sure to check the deductible amounts that you may be responsible for. Even when the CO's had coverage through the BSA, they learned that in some instances they were responsible for staggering deductibles. As an individual Scouter, your leverage to negotiate with the BSA after the fact is miniscule.  It is better to know in advance how to best protect yourself against risks!

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/1/2021 at 5:41 PM, gpurlee said:

 (1)   Did the church actively provide adult leadership, support and oversight to the Scouting program? In the past year, how many adult church members were involved with the program on a regular basis?

(2)   Were the youth of the church involved with the Scouting program? As congregations aged, churches had fewer youth and a disconnect of sorts occurred.

(3)   Did the church include the Scouting program in its budget similar to its “official” youth group, coordinate in annual program planning and regular church program committees and regularly have joint programs such as service projects, fellowship events, etc?

This is our setup in a nutshell - no to all three.  Luckily, we now have a guy in charge of the youth ministry who recognizes that we are part of his program and wants to represent us to the parish council.  The very minimum goal is covering adult registration fees.  The funny thing is that we have to have the Safe Environment  Training, which is YPT on steroids, yet we're treated more like facility users with a blurb on the webpage.  We're working on becoming more visible, but it's difficult with only 1 family that is a member of the church.  

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