Jump to content

Bankruptcy, everything but the legalese


Recommended Posts

Please note the Penn requirement includes any adult , anywhere,  (see time defined), school volunteer, school bus driver, sunday school,  parish priest, Scout leader from Nevada staying at a Gettysburg campground  for more than (?) 2 days, etc. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 830
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

No one here, except members who are claimants, have any part of deciding anything in this bankruptcy. Let's drop the personal criticism of others who express in a scoutlike way their differing op

We're going to split the ch11.x thread in 2. The original will be kept as it was intended, for the legal aspects of the case and everything else will go here. In a nutshell, if the judge is dealing wi

@Gilwell_1919 I want to respond to this, but in the proper thread, which is this one. Let's be clear what Kosnoff has said. 1) He had stated that scouting should continue. He's repeated th

Posted Images

58 minutes ago, SSScout said:

Please note the Penn requirement includes any adult , anywhere,  (see time defined), school volunteer, school bus driver, sunday school,  parish priest, Scout leader from Nevada staying at a Gettysburg campground  for more than (?) 2 days, etc. 

@SSScout,

The PA requirement (for those that delved into the link) is actually three background checks:  1) A PA State Police Criminal Record Check, 2) A PA Department of Human Services Child Abuse History Check, and EITHER 3A) An FBI Background Check with Fingerprint Record OR 3B) IF you have been a PA resident for 10 years, a sworn affidavit of not having been convicted of a whole list of child abuse related crimes.

There is no cost to volunteers for these checks, except in the case of 3A, the FBI Fingerprint check.

My question is, if PA requires the volunteer to obtain these clearances, do the councils in PA do any further background checks?

 

Post Script...

Did a news search...of course a law is really only good if it is followed and enforced:

https://www.witf.org/2020/01/16/groups-are-skirting-pa-law-intended-to-protect-children-from-abuse-in-wake-of-penn-state-scandal/

Edited by InquisitiveScouter
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello all. I am a leader of a Cub Scout Pack and I have been following this for the past few months to try to anticipate the impact to our unit. As things stand now, it appears that short-term impact to our unit will be minor aside from increased dues and maybe one less camp in our area. Long term … well the headwinds associated with Cub Scouts certainly haven’t disappeared but that is a different topic from bankruptcy. But nevertheless we have volunteers who are committed locally to Do Their Best for the scouts regardless of what is happening at higher levels of the organization.

 

I want to thank everyone on this forum for interpreting the legal proceedings, making it available to the public in a useful way, and providing color commentary from different viewpoints. There is no where else practical to find this information. Obviously BSA has communicated nothing useful on the matter, and our Local Council has been completely silent on the issue. To be fair, at least with the Local Council I suspect it is a conscious decision that since the day-to-day muck of bankruptcy proceedings really has no impact locally it is the better of two evils to just pretend it doesn’t exist and encourage units to carry on. Though I don’t always agree with some of the opinions, I would particularly like to thank CynicalScouter who seems to have found his calling in summarizing and translating legal documents into a form mere Cub Scout leaders can understand.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, CubHerder said:

Obviously BSA has communicated nothing useful on the matter, and our Local Council has been completely silent on the issue. To be fair, at least with the Local Council I suspect it is a conscious decision that since the day-to-day muck of bankruptcy proceedings really has no impact locally it is the better of two evils to just pretend it doesn’t exist and encourage units to carry on.

Right, plus frankly the fact that ANY communication to folks will be vetted by the local council or BSA lawyers. The first two rules of civil litigation for parties to the litigation

  1. Shut up and let your lawyer do the talking
  2. Keep shutting up.

I cannot tell you how many times I've see in civil cases something the party to the civil case has aid in-between hearings that then gets brought up at the next hearing date. Then the attorney for the blabber mouth has to unravel and undo the damage.

Moreover, for many LCs, there were and are legal restrictions regarding mediation privilege and sharing information. Etc.

So yes, the average den leader isn't going to understand this and isn't going to need to know about this for their next Baloo the Builder session. But for anyone with more and a cursory interest, this is the only game in town. The reddit scouting subreddits have effectively banned discussion of the bankruptcy, etc.

20 minutes ago, CubHerder said:

Though I don’t always agree with some of the opinions, I would particularly like to thank CynicalScouter who seems to have found his calling in summarizing and translating legal documents into a form mere Cub Scout leaders can understand.

As a (recovering) den leader I thank you.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, CubHerder said:

Hello all. I am a leader of a Cub Scout Pack and I have been following this for the past few months to try to anticipate the impact to our unit. As things stand now, it appears that short-term impact to our unit will be minor aside from increased dues and maybe one less camp in our area. Long term … well the headwinds associated with Cub Scouts certainly haven’t disappeared but that is a different topic from bankruptcy. But nevertheless we have volunteers who are committed locally to Do Their Best for the scouts regardless of what is happening at higher levels of the organization.

 

I want to thank everyone on this forum for interpreting the legal proceedings, making it available to the public in a useful way, and providing color commentary from different viewpoints. There is no where else practical to find this information. Obviously BSA has communicated nothing useful on the matter, and our Local Council has been completely silent on the issue. To be fair, at least with the Local Council I suspect it is a conscious decision that since the day-to-day muck of bankruptcy proceedings really has no impact locally it is the better of two evils to just pretend it doesn’t exist and encourage units to carry on. Though I don’t always agree with some of the opinions, I would particularly like to thank CynicalScouter who seems to have found his calling in summarizing and translating legal documents into a form mere Cub Scout leaders can understand.

You have to keep in mind that in a year or two, there may be no Scouts BSA at all. This could happen.

At this point there is still alot of things up in the air. This court case in my opinion will not be over for some time.

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, 1980Scouter said:

You have to keep in mind that in a year or two, there may be no Scouts BSA at all. This could happen.

At this point there is still alot of things up in the air. This court case in my opinion will not be over for some time.

This is the thread to talk about this:

Yes, there is still a very, very real possibility that Boy Scouts of America the entity that runs Scouts BSA, Cub Scouts, Venture Scouts, etc. will be forced to liquidated (not by the court but by simply running out of money and having no choice). Moreover, even if BSA survives, there's no certainty it will make it if membership numbers do NOT bounce back the way they are financially projecting.

There's also the possibility that Boy Scouts of America the entity survives but that local councils will go through waves of their own bankruptcies, etc.

I do not think it is helpful to speculate much past mid-December (when we find out how victims voted) or late January (will the judge confirm/approve whatever the plan looks like post-vote).

Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, 1980Scouter said:

You have to keep in mind that in a year or two, there may be no Scouts BSA at all. This could happen.

Yes it could.  If that should happen, some new scout association would take over where BSA left off.  WOSM is not going to just abandon the USA.  Scouting will continue.

 

Edited by David CO
  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

Tim Kosnoff is looking for survivors looking to talk to national media. Read his Twitter account. 

Kosnoff is reporting a slew of texts and has a media coordinator.  It appears they will be working on going out to local media (and in some cases national).  

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, ThenNow said:

I don’t Twitter, Tweet or twiddly deet. What’s he sayin?

Since he made it public, if you are interested:

  • text him at 425-830-8201 with "yes" and your phone number/email address
  • You do not have to be a AIS client; however, if you are not you should clear this with your lawyer first.
Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

text him at 425-830-8201 with "yes" and your phone number/email address

Two things:

1. Is that a Puerto Rico number?; and

2. Does the offer come with with the ocean fishing option or the Schiavoni fishing one? I want to know these things before committing. 

PS - I will NOT be texting that number!! He offered jocularity in the name of sanity. Oo. I just found what I want on my headstone. Bam.

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

Two things:

1. Is that a Puerto Rico number?; and

2. Does the offer come with with the ocean fishing option or the Schiavoni fishing one? I want to know these things before committing. 

PS - I will NOT be texting that number!! He offered jocularity in the name of sanity. Oo. I just found what I want on my headstone. Bam.

It’s a Washington State number at this time of year you might get an Albacore trip out of Westport Wa. Albacore don’t like insurance companies. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, David CO said:

Yes it could.  If that should happen, some new scout association would take over where BSA left off.  WOSM is not going to just abandon the USA.  Scouting will continue.

 

So, if National liquidates, does its intellectual property go on the auction block?

And, if so, are the potential buyers limited to those who wish to carry on the Scouting Movement, or could someone buy the intellectual property and simply put it on a shelf to collect dust?

Seems to me National is in the franchise business-it licenses its intellectual property, its name, logos, designs, merit badge pamphlets, handbooks, etc.

Some tycoon buy Philmont?  

What is American Scouting without those?

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, SiouxRanger said:

So, if National liquidates, does its intellectual property go on the auction block?

And, if so, are the potential buyers limited to those who wish to carry on the Scouting Movement, or could someone buy the intellectual property and simply put it on a shelf to collect dust?

Seems to me National is in the franchise business-it licenses its intellectual property, its name, logos, designs, merit badge pamphlets, handbooks, etc.

Some tycoon buy Philmont?  

What is American Scouting without those?

 

My understanding is on the asset side, everything is sold for the benefit of or transferred directly to creditors.  Every HA camp, all intellectual property/trademarks, etc.  Everything. 

So, Eagle Scout rank ... I expect that would be sold.  Possible buyers (Trail Life, GSUSA, some new WOSM org, private company that would want to profit from it somehow).  Philmont would be sold.  Yes, a tycoon could come up with $70M and buy it and save it for scouting (hopefully).

I believe liquidation will not occur, even if the vote fails.  The tone and actions of the judge makes me think this is the last thing she wants.  I bet BSA has a back pocket quick exit plan that they could convince the judge to implement via cramdown.  My guess is the coalition knows what that plan is and would like to avoid it (as it probably means less money immediately and the path to larger payouts will be through insurance fights & state courts which will take time).  The judge will not want to see the BSA liquidate and may determine it is the only exit path.  

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...