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No. Yes.    Yes.  The guys at national are idiots.

As mentioned before in this thread, allow 18 year old seniors to be registered as youth.   While that doesn't help 19 or 20 year olds, it addresses the biggest issue. I would have the rule be for

One problem with intense litigation: … it discourages voluntary reporting. But, from what I’ve come to understand, it depends. Formidable predators (let’s consider the adult serial rapist) may

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11 minutes ago, TAHAWK said:

YPT was also expressly created to protect BSA, LCs, COs, and adults from clams of abuse.

(sarcasm on) 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 Funniest thing  I heard, covers LC and CO's. That's Why National is throwing them under the bus in the bankruptcy. (sarcasm off)

Edited by Eagle94-A1
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49 minutes ago, MattR said:

Or maybe the criteria for being an asm needs changing. Call an 18 yo that's still in HS a JASM and the problem is solved.

That doesn't change whether YPT applies to them @18. Whether JASM, ASM or Committee Member the problem is still there. 

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1 hour ago, Sentinel947 said:

That doesn't change whether YPT applies to them @18. Whether JASM, ASM or Committee Member the problem is still there. 

Actually, JASMs do not need YPT since they are 16 and 17 years old.

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52 minutes ago, David CO said:

I don't think so.  YPT is national protecting national.

In the past I would say it is protecting everyone, but since the bankruptcy, I believe you are correct.

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4 hours ago, MattR said:

Or maybe the criteria for being an asm needs changing. Call an 18 yo that's still in HS a JASM and the problem is solved.

 

3 hours ago, Sentinel947 said:

That doesn't change whether YPT applies to them @18. Whether JASM, ASM or Committee Member the problem is still there. 

 

2 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Actually, JASMs do not need YPT since they are 16 and 17 years old.

I was responding to @MattRs post. What you call an 18 y/o doesn't change anything. I'm aware that currently a JASM is a youth role. 

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The best solution I could see to this issue would be to extend "Youth" registration status to anyone that doesn't qualify as an "Adult".  In other words, anyone under 21.  Not that I expect the BSA to take that approach.

__________________________________________________________________________

Honestly, the only way I see any sort of rational adjustment to this policy happening would be to start taking the policy really, really literally and start reporting every single infraction to the BSA's official hotline. 

"Hello BSA?  I was at a meeting and I saw a 16 year old Venturer get left alone in a room with an 18 year old venturer because everyone else left the room and they were slow packing up their stuff.  They were alone for at least a minute or two."

"Hello BSA?  One of my 18 year old venturers was assigned a school project with a 17 year old venturer classmate and they spoke on the phone alone together."

Hello BSA?  One of my 19 year old venturers was on a family trip and was required by their parents to room with their 15 year old brother."

Hello BSA?...

You get the picture. 

Either that, or start entrapping the BSA officials and then reporting it.  I could have my 17 year old son call up the local SE to ask a question (assuming they could get through), then at the end follow up with "Oh, by the way, I'm a Youth Scout member of the BSA so you've just violated YPT by speaking to me on the phone without my parent or another registered adult listening.  Were you going to report this is or should I?"

 

When they start having to dedicate serious resources to investigating reports arising from the more inane aspects of their policy, they might think an adjustment is worthwhile.

Edited by elitts
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  • 1 month later...

Perhaps it was discussed and I missed it, but this thread keeps referring to adult leaders and ASM's (age 18-20).

What is missing is Adult Participants, the 18-20 year old Venturing, Sea Scout and OA participants. 

They are also required to follow YP. 

YPT does not specifically state (in official material) family exceptions. What about cousins? What about half-siblings or step-siblings, especially if they live in separate homes. Even then I have been informed that there was at least one case of a parent molesting their own youth, even prior to entering Scouting. 

When teaching YPT the "out of scouting" rules pertaining to Adult Participants and extended family where where I found most people getting frustrated. 

I have heard dozens of scenarios that are pretty common that violate YP when out of Scouting rules are applied. 

  • Scout A and his little sister pick up Scout B to ride to school each day at about 8am. Scout A is 18 and scout B is 16. Scout B's parents leave for work before 6am, the bus picks up about 6:15am. One day Scout A shows up to pick up Scout B without his little sister, who woke up at 6:30 sick. Too late to get to the bus. Now what?
  • A Venturing Scout has been dating his girlfriend for about a year, she is in a BSA Scouting Troop. There is 14 months difference in their age. Then he then turns 18, now what?
  • Two best friends since 1st grade join Venturing together, they are inseparable and do everything together. There is 5 months difference in their age. One turns 18, now what?
  • And the list goes on.....................................

YPT cannot cover every edge case, nor can common sense be relied on. 

There needs to be a way to take prior relationships into account without telling a Scout, give up Scouting or give up the relationship.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, HelpfulTracks said:

A Venturing Scout has been dating his girlfriend for about a year, she is in a BSA Scouting Troop. There is 14 months difference in their age. Then he then turns 18, now what?

Taking this a step further...if they are having sexual relations and it occurs on a BSA outing is the BSA then on the hook for sexual abuse?  Adult having sex with a minor?

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4 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

Taking this a step further...if they are having sexual relations and it occurs on a BSA outing is the BSA then on the hook for sexual abuse?  Adult having sex with a minor?

There are people running around who were the result of a BSA campout. I've wondered if that was the reason behind restricting scouts from camping without adults.

Barry.

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1 minute ago, Eagledad said:

There are people running around who were the result of a BSA campout. I've wondered if that was the reason behind restricting scouts from camping without adults.

Barry.

No amount of adult supervision will keep this from happening.  When there is will there is a way.

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20 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

No amount of adult supervision will keep this from happening.  When there is will there is a way.

Oh, I certainly agree. A mentor who I give the most credit for my style of Scoutmastering quit scouting when he realized that he was more of a babysitter of their new Venturing unit than advisor. He got no sleep even with his tent was set up between the Venturing tents.

Barry

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