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3 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

Ok, sorry. I'll drop it.

Well, it seemed you both were coming to a consensus. Maybe just my view but bankruptcy court is not necessarily moral, at best they just spread the pain around? 

 

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4 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

I think the best thing would be to rename the current Scouter Forum .... The Bankruptcy Forum.  (Honestly it's sort of that now) Then form a NEW forum called Scouter Forum Part 2 . 

Then those that want to diver deep into the  minutia, blue sky thoughts, what if's, and pure speculation of the bankruptcy and what may, may not, may never happen will have a home.  Put on the tinfoil hats and go to town.

Those that want to discuss and review actual Scouting program topics will have a home.

Just a thought.

 

 

You can't post other topics now? Strange, I can. Anyway, I found something really cool on the UK Scout forum. Someone started a single thread that's been going for years and all it is is a place to talk about good news. Now, I've tried that here before and it lasted about a week at most. Maybe you'll have better luck. Or maybe it's just that Americans like to whinge about things. Think about it, what are the British famous for with regard to personality? Dour, stiff upper lip, subdued, all that. And yet, they have this fantastic thread that's been going for years about silly little wonderful news and all we do is complain about national, or council, or woodbadge, or family scouting, or the G2SS, or eagle mills, or obnoxious parents, or uniforms, or membership, or .... wait a minute, what were we talking about?

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14 hours ago, MattR said:

More, different?

We’ve briefly touched on the physiological and neurological changes created by trauma. While it is extremely interesting to me and I wish more people understood/wanted to understand it, I’m thinking it’s far afield. It might be very helpful to have a place to post articles and links as a ‘digital library’ for any who want to understand sexual abuse trauma, the various forms of impact, Complex PTSD and all the attendant issues. Could even say it’s not a discussion thread, simply a resource. (I know some people say I’m one of the smartest people on the forum, but this is a pretty good idea if I do say so myself. PAH!)

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16 hours ago, gpurlee said:

1) We want to maintain topics and thread that are specifically focused on issues of the bankruptcy. We recognize that this is a very valuable source of information for many persons.

 

14 hours ago, MattR said:

Let's identify the sub threads. My limited view:

1) ch 11, so money and court proceedings.

2) whatever Mutsy and Cynical are grappling with. Legal vs moral?

3) healing

4) charter orgs

More, different?

As has been seen with some of the issues/topics that needed to be ‘banned’ or pulled out as separate threads, maybe there are other things that are simply dead horses and bones of contention. Some of the cyclic debates, in my reading, no longer advance the purpose of understanding and processing though what has happened (to Scouting, Scouts, Scouters and survivors) and what is happening, will happen, may happen and may never happen. The moderators probably have a better 30,000 feet view of what those may be. I have some thoughts, but my comments won’t be taken well by some, I’m fairly certain. 

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14 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

I think the best thing would be to rename the current Scouter Forum .... The Bankruptcy Forum.  (Honestly it's sort of that now) Then form a NEW forum called Scouter Forum Part 2 . 

This is a temporary state. At one point or another the bankruptcy will end and scouting post-bankruptcy will emerge. Then we can go back to fighting insta-palms. Again.

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6 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

This is a temporary state. At one point or another the bankruptcy will end and scouting post-bankruptcy will emerge. Then we can go back to fighting insta-palms. Again.

Fighting insta-palms? I only rail at those who made that decision. Now, I’m struggling to get new Eagle scouts to do the paperwork to acquire them!

As to the topic at hand, it might be worthwhile to have an entire child sexual abuse forum, of which bankruptcy proceedings and other collections of topics would be sub-forums. There may currently be a lot of churn specific to the bankruptcy, but in the long run we’re wanting to know how to keep kids safe and help adults who were abused in childhood succeed as leaders and parents.

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Thank all of you for your ideas. I am sure that the moderators will read and discuss these among ourselves. We really do value the diversity of opinion on this forum and respect the wide range of views and information.  And just so you know, there is a diverse range of opinions among the moderators at times ... and I think that is a good thing.

 

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19 hours ago, yknot said:

I don't think so. I think most of us are reading absolutely everything.

Some read all, but I've repeatedly had to give up reading 5+ pages or 10+ or 20+ of a 100+ page thread.  Heck, the bankruptcy threadS are well over 600 pages now.  .... but then again, it's a huge topic.  I'm sure I've missed lots.  I know I've asked for an updated summary at times. 

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Perhaps, and I don't know if this is possible,  we could have a locked thread/page that those that are closely following the bankruptcy and the proceedings could enter a layman's version of what happened, maybe the docket info too, and no comments would be allowed. Comments could be on a linked thread.  Then those that wish to just stay up to date on the court case can do so without having to shift thru pages of commentary. 

I think there needs to be a place to vent/what if/share experiences and thoughts/concerns is very important.  But I also think a place for 'just the facts' is important too. As someone who can't always check the forum on a regular basis a 'just the facts' thread would be awesome. 

 

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1 minute ago, bsaggcmom said:

we could have a locked thread/page that those that are closely following the bankruptcy and the proceedings could enter a layman's version of what happened, maybe the docket info too, and no comments would be allowed.

The docket info can be found at

https://cases.omniagentsolutions.com/documents?clientid=CsgAAncz%2b6Yclmvv9%2fq5CGybTGevZSjdVimQq9zQutqmTPHesk4PZDyfOOLxIiIwZjXomPlMZCo%3d>).&tagid=1153

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Thanks CynicalScouter.

I'm a healthcare provider and don't speak legalize.  So I really like when a synopsis of the days events are posted in layman terms by yourself and others. 

But thanks for the link.

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BSA was and is a National organization. And a Local phenomenon.   As such, the High Mucky Mucks had to protect their turf (so they felt). That is, I feel , at base,  how we got here.  The response to sexual abuse of our young (and old?) has changed drastically, for the best.  And BSA, and various churches and other organizations (my French teacher of Middle School years was recently arrested and is being tried.  Recent events and long ago events being examined) are learning what it means to no longer have a rug to sweep things under. 

Bankruptcy,  better Abuse Prevention and Response Training (it's not really "Youth Protection"  alone, is it?) better personal responsibility.   If a Scout is "Trustworthy" and she/he tells us something we'd rather not have to hear,,,,   how do we respond?   We learn from the past or we are truly condemned to repeat it.

Are the Scouts of today and tomorrow being made to PAY for the mistakes and avoidances of the past?   Unfortunately , yes, to some very necessary degree.  The local phenomena will sustain the National org.  Always did.  But now, I feel,  all of us Scouter types have more knowledge and thus more say.  Don't we?   

If you see something, say something? 

Moderators,  (facilitators a better title, say I).... The Scouter dot com world is very flexible and adaptable.   Perhaps the BIG thread could be divided, but to what end?  SOMEBODY needs to start a new discussion/debate/chat room on "The Future of Scouting , post bankruptcy, post pandemic, post abuse settlements, post Cal Fires, post lost camps, post lost LDS Scouts, post lost Methodist Troops, post lost Catholic Troops, post YSL  uni, post lose of the Necker/woggle, post higher coffee prices......"

You want whipped cream with your peach cobbler?

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Considering the focus brought to the CH 11, Act 5, thread today by a mere court ruling or two, were the judge to so oblige...daily...the problem would be solved.

(Sorry-not even worth 2 cents.)

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  • 3 weeks later...

Just wanted to thank the moderators for keeping the threads separate.  I've been lurking here for months but felt compelled to create an account to express my thanks for the information presented here, as it is much more than I am getting from the various teleconferences of the committees.  It's nice to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Scouting will survive the BSA reorganization.

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