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Chapter 11 Announced - Part 4 Revised Plan


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7 hours ago, fred8033 said:

I often argue our expectations of the scouts should parallel the expectations of the adults.  If no phone charging stations means no adults, I'm not surprised at all that our youth membership is dropping.   ... BUT ... that's another debate that's been had many many times. 

I truly suspect that there would be no debate just two folks on the same side.  Many adults just can't be away from their employment responsibilities and need some degree of contact with work. or they can't be at camp, jeopardizing scouts' attendance at camp. 

My unit sends 8 to 10 scouts to summer camp.  Not a big unit.  We have a tough time lining up enough adults to provide two deep leadership for a week.  Some years an adult or two stay the entire week.  Other years, maybe one stays the whole week and the second position is filled by two each staying half a week, or 4 or 5 covering parts of the week.  It gets done, but nothing seems easy anymore.

We do have some parents who know nothing of scouting and are there as a placeholder.  They tend to be on their phones. (Our camp is fairly remote, so service is spotty.)

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Ugh. Rather than reply to a particular post I’ll just put in on the thread. I’m an amateur at best when it comes to forums.    first I’ll state again how I am much impressed with the level of m

(deleted)  Sorry, but I am simply tired of the BS of somehow thinking money can cure everything.  (deleted).  Just my opinion, and I understand you suffered considerable based on what you have shred. 

Hello All.  New here-first post. I read these forums for hours and hours, and signed up to post this. So, as I understand the upshot of it all: 1.  That National initially indicated tha

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7 hours ago, ThenNow said:

I know why we need phones for safety purposes and adult connection to work and family, but why does a Scout need a phone at camp? I’m glad I couldn’t search the web for lashing or Barred Owl mating calls or reflector oven biscuits or raccoon scat identification or any one of a 1000++ other video tutorials I could now fetch up. For me, as both a Scout and camp staffer, seems it would have been totally disruptive (and even destructive) of the positive things I took away from camping, Summer Camp particularly. No?

My experience has been that I rarely see a scout with a phone.  And to the extent those observations are at summer camp, most units seem to have a strict no phone policy. And enforce it.

At our unit meetings we have a plastic tub into which scouts place their phones, to be retrieved on the way out the door at meeting's end. We don't always use it, just when scouts seem to be using them.

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1 hour ago, SiouxRanger said:

My experience has been that I rarely see a scout with a phone.  And to the extent those observations are at summer camp, most units seem to have a strict no phone policy. And enforce it.

At our unit meetings we have a plastic tub into which scouts place their phones, to be retrieved on the way out the door at meeting's end. We don't always use it, just when scouts seem to be using them.

We have some patrols who use them a lot. Not all, but some. They have a group chat or text and instead of using meeting time to organize campouts, etc., they prefer to do it that way. They can order food, have it shipped or ready for pick up, pay each other via Venmo or whatever they are using. It can be efficient and independent. Don't assume they're all doing Reface or whatever. Well, most of the time they are, but not always. 

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3 hours ago, yknot said:

We have some patrols who use them a lot. Not all, but some. They have a group chat or text and instead of using meeting time to organize campouts, etc., they prefer to do it that way. They can order food, have it shipped or ready for pick up, pay each other via Venmo or whatever they are using. It can be efficient and independent. Don't assume they're all doing Reface or whatever. Well, most of the time they are, but not always. 

And so it has all changed.  In my day, our patrol met once a week, no adult supervision, and worked on scout skills.

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9 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

My experience has been that I rarely see a scout with a phone.

We just got back from camp and there were some scouts with phones, some in our troop.  Mostly used them for taking snapshots the way one might have used a camera in my youth to take photo memories of camp (and the quality of cameras on phones is killing the point and shoot camera market, so your troop historian might not have many other choices about recording camp if they are doing their duties) and some for contact with family back home (mixed blessing in some cases).  When we had buddy groups of scouts spread about camp when severe weather rolled through, their ability to check in with leaders because they had comms capability and let us know they were safely sheltered (and in some cases get advice on the closest place to do so) was useful.

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Random Observation I: I had no clue you guys had this much to say about cell phones in Scouting. I’ve been tempted to say, “Get a room already.” :) 

Random Observation II: There has been an interesting concurrence of the camp distraction lull and luffing in the case. Harmonic convergence or interstellar alignment I’m thinkin. I have a slight foreboding.

Carry on…

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1 hour ago, ThenNow said:

Random Observation I: I had no clue you guys had this much to say about cell phones in Scouting. I’ve been tempted to say, “Get a room already.”

@ThenNowHang around after the case is closed. You will see the same or bigger discussions on particular requirements of particular badges, uniform minutiae, and a million other esoteric important unimportant things! 

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2 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

esoteric important unimportant things! 

Esoteric Important Unimportant are my middle names. As you know, my mother had it in for me from launch point. 

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1 hour ago, ThenNow said:

Okay, so I read the document, or at least, my eyes ran over the words in the document. 

So, I will now stand in front of the audience in my top hat and cape, show that nothing is hiding in the cuffs of my sleeves, pick up my magic wand, and attempt to translate...

As a part of the the [most recently proposed] settlement plan, the BSA will pay the "coalition" (not to be confused with the TCC, which is the official group of abuse claimants) 10 million dollars for... legal fees?  However, the US Trustee (different from the Trustee who will oversee the $ in the settlement fund?) says, and I almost quote, "This is a no-no for various legal reasons."

If I have that right, why would the BSA propose to do such a thing?  It makes it sound almost like they're trying to engender good feels from the coalition's lawyers so they/their clients will vote for the settlement plan.

Am I close to right?  I'm just an Average Joe whose eyes cross and then glaze over when faced with legalese. 

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37 minutes ago, RandomScouter said:

As a part of the the [most recently proposed] settlement plan, the BSA will pay the "coalition" (not to be confused with the TCC, which is the official group of abuse claimants) 10 million dollars for... legal fees?  However, the US Trustee (different from the Trustee who will oversee the $ in the settlement fund?) says, and I almost quote, "This is a no-no for various legal reasons."

Well, welcome to the bankruptcy code.  Code says that parties that make "substantial contributions"  Discussion: https://www.abi.org/abi-journal/substantial-contribution-claims-a-new-perspective

Since the Coalition was deemed a "mediation party" by the court the bar gets lowered on their making the substantial contribution claim.  That said, the US Trustee is doing his job by holding parties to the strictest rules for reimbursement.  Remember though that in many cases the Trustee basically "points things out" and then a party will provide a complete response to satisfy the Court.

Regardless of the above, it's nice to know that the US Trustee is paying attention and weighing in regardless of the impact.  No, I'm not a party making a "substantial contribution" worthy of reimbursement.  But I wish I was 😉

 

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10 hours ago, MYCVAStory said:

Since the Coalition was deemed a "mediation party" by the court the bar gets lowered on their making the substantial contribution claim.  That said, the US Trustee is doing his job by holding parties to the strictest rules for reimbursement.  Remember though that in many cases the Trustee basically "points things out" and then a party will provide a complete response to satisfy the Court.

Part of the script for my screenplay. A fictional tale, or not. For now, let’s say it is.

How bitter will be the irony IF:

Coalition firms are found to have unethically, improperly and/or fraudulently amassed claims.

They used venture money, aggregators and call centers to do the deed, failing to vet many claims, some of which are valid but assailable because of their poor lawyering. 

Well before all that was discovered and proven - though suspected by insurers - the sheer volume of their client base gave them a mountainous soapbox from which they demanded access to the mediation. Access granted.

Once in, things dragged on and dragged some more. They were feeling pressure to settle because, well, the clock is ticking and the piper always gets paid. 

“Hey! Let’s find a path to compromise. I know we can do it and it’s for the victims, after all,” counseled the Coalition to the mediation parties.

To themselves they whispered, “Yes. We surely must. It’s getting a little hot in here, if you know what I mean.”

“Oh, goodie,” said the BSA and some other parties. Let’s make a deal!” (Did that include the TCC? Only the Shadow knows...)

“So very gracious of of you to make all these concessions!” Exclaims the judge, bolting awake from a 14 month nap. “You are indeed benevolent people seeking the good of all humankind and sexual abuse victims everywhere. I hereby decree you have made a ‘substantial contribution.’ I wave my magic money wand and award you $10M. [Swish and flick! *PING*] 

”Thank you, your honor. Truly. You are most generous and we are humbled. Um. May we be excused for a minute or two?” bows the Coalition. “As it turns out, we need to see a shark about a horse’s head.”

“Very well. I grant you leave,” said she, “but do remember to vote. Early and often.”

To be continued...

I am NOT reporting facts, only playing with the puzzle pieces to create a speculative collage. The pieces are there though. 

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21 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

Part of the script for my screenplay. A fictional tale, or not. For now, let’s say it is.

How bitter will be the irony IF:

Coalition firms are found to have unethically, improperly and/or fraudulently amassed claims.

They used venture money, aggregators and call centers to do the deed, failing to vet many claims, some of which are valid but assailable because of their poor lawyering. 

Well before all that was discovered and proven - though suspected by insurers - the sheer volume of their client base gave them a mountainous soapbox from which they demanded access to the mediation. Access granted.

Once in, things dragged on and dragged some more. They were feeling pressure to settle because, well, the clock is ticking and the piper always gets paid. 

“Hey! Let’s find a path to compromise. I know we can do it and it’s for the victims, after all,” counseled the Coalition to the mediation parties.

To themselves they whispered, “Yes. We surely must. It’s getting a little hot in here, if you know what I mean.”

“Oh, goodie,” said the BSA and some other parties. Let’s make a deal! (Did that include the TCC? Only the Shadow knows...)

“So very gracious of of you to make all these concessions!” Exclaims the judge, bolting awake from a 14 month nap. “You are indeed benevolent people seeking the good of all humankind and sexual abuse victims everywhere. I hereby decree you have made a ‘substantial contribution.’ I wave my magic money wand and award you $10M. [Swish and flick! *PING*] 

”Thank you, your honor. Truly. You are most generous and we are humbled. Um. May we be excused for a minute or two?” bows the Coalition. “As it turns out, we need to see a shark about a horse’s head.”

“Very well. I grant you leave,” said she, “but do remember to vote. Early and often.”

To be continued...

I am NOT reporting facts, only playing with the puzzle pieces to create a speculative collage. The pieces are there though. 

I feel like I am watching a 3 ring circus as all of this unfolds.  

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1 minute ago, johnsch322 said:

I feel like I am watching a 3 ring circus as all of this unfolds. 

Is it the one where the elephant gets spooked and runs through the crowd? 

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6 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

Is it the one where the elephant gets spooked and runs through the crowd? 

There does seem to be a few clowns but they are not very funny.

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