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Chapter 11 Announced - Part 4 Revised Plan


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Fair points brother. It’s premature. 
 

I speak from personal sad experience where I wasn’t up to it and I let people down that I cared for. It’s important that a man know his limitations. 

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@CynicalScouter Thanks from me and frankly, surely everyone, for tracking on the status of National's bankruptcy pleadings, and the procedural steps, past and pending, in the Bankruptcy case. And your

Okay. Enough. If you aren't talking about court proceedings then drop it.  It would be a shame to lock this thread now.

A few random observations from watching this bankruptcy unfold over the past several months: The focus has clearly been on protecting the national organization first and then the local councils.

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I don’t think the bankruptcy code except liquidation should be allowed in sexual abuse cases at all. These were not mistakes of business judgment. This was a criminal conspiracy lasting a century. 

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An attorney has filed his appearance on behalf of several Knights of Columbus chapters.

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/2872d939-b08b-4f90-980e-b5693a7dcf64_5534.pdf

And BSA has filed a response to a "Third-party" (probably an abuse claimant) who filed a motion to correct his address on court records.

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/f589e0f3-6983-4092-9b4e-94c660a43986_5532.pdf

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/c66ef068-8ebf-4569-80df-8c86c6dc1a9d_5348.pdf

Motion says "On [date] the Third-party received a correspondence from Omni Agent Solutions, asserting they represent the petitioners in the matter, and advising of a hearing", and mentions that the letter he did receive was delivered "in an institutional setting";  response attaches a copy of a letter from Omni to the movant, beginning:

"We have received your letter and updated our database with your correct address information as provided. We are not attorneys so we cannot give any legal advice on your claim or the case. We do not send out updates to the case other than what the courts instruct us to disseminate. Below is a general update for you of the case."

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Muttsy said:

ThenNow, I love you like a brother. I’m so tickled by your brand of reality and humor.

Well, thank you. I’m honored. I try. I make myself laugh so at least I know one person is doing so with me and not just joining the gallery laughing at me. 

8 hours ago, Muttsy said:

But here’s the deal. This bankruptcy is not normal. It’s not about bond holders, corporate vendors, banks and the creditors of the commercial world. Yet this is the bankruptcy code template superimposed on the TCC members. No disrespect but how does sexual victimization qualify a person for this job? Earnestness is not a qualification. These poor men have been manipulated to believe they are equivalent to creditor committee members in commercial bankruptcies. This requires a level of competence that cannot be conferred by don of the sword on each shoulder. 

I don’t know about such things. I have no training, history or experience in the arena. From the grass level like a mouse on a battlefield, it looks highly complex and a game for giants. From 35,000 feet, it definitely looks a bit hanky. The behavior of attorneys at hearings is so disingenuous that it creates a sense of grand, absurd theater. I can only comment from the perspective I have and that’s what I did. Being “in the pocket of” implies more than just duped. It’s sounds like active complicity and being paid off. I think that’s inaccurate and inappropriate without proof of same. Dunno. That’s my opinion. I do love a good story of intrigue, skulduggery and back room dealing, so I very much welcome what more you can reveal of the facts.

One of the things that most intrigues me about you, and it’s really only hinted at in your posts, is the background knowledge you seem to have in this area connecting the players. Would you do one of those “A Beautiful Mind” push pin and string walls connecting the dots? Who knows whom and works with these guys and is in cahoots with her and has a vested interest in their business and is an ally of this firm and goes to the Bohemian Club with his son and knew his father and they get kickbacks when this expert is hired and so on. Please?! There’s a map of players and history and connections in your bean that I REALLY REALLY want to see. I’ll pay cash on the barrelhead AND split the gate from my next 10 standup gigs. Don’t go looking at BMWs any time soon. Just sayin’.

Edited by ThenNow
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This is a question that sits like a bomb in my little brain so I try not to think about it and light the fuse. Has there been any research or analysis of the IVF, since it's the most accessible record, to determine how many or the ratio of arrests to reports of CSA? In the case I've researched the most which impacts my claim and implicates the SE, the parents were effectively asked to stand down and not press charges. Their one condition was being assured the perpetrator, an ASM and Institutional Rep for the CO, be barred from Scouting. Okay. I'm going to try not to think about it now and stave off the explosion. If you don't hear from me for a while, you'll know what happened. 

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Muttsy said:

I feel sorry for them. They were used like pawns. They just didn’t understand that having a good heart and sincerity was actually a disability when you are swimming in a shark tank like this

This is, I think, Kosnoff's point: IN HIS VIEW (not mine, HIS) the 9 men who are the TCC are in over their heads and being manipulated by Strang, Coalition lawyers, and other attorneys. who are looking to cash in a) for their own personal benefits and b) the repay Wall Street backed loans.

Kosnoff's made the clear in his Twitter feed already and I suspect will be what is deposition looks/sounds like.

Edited by CynicalScouter
Want to be clear this is Kosnoff's view of the TCC, not mine
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18 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Kosnoff's made the clear in his Twitter feed already and I suspect will be what is deposition looks/sounds like.

Are they going to lock and key the transcripts in the vault? 

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12 hours ago, Muttsy said:

These poor men have been manipulated to believe they are equivalent to creditor committee members in commercial bankruptcies. This requires a level of competence that cannot be conferred by don of the sword on each shoulder. 
 

I feel sorry for them. They were used like pawns. They just didn’t understand that having a good heart and sincerity was actually a disability when you are swimming in a shark tank like this. 
 

They are embarrassed and ashamed after yesterday is my assessment. 

As someone else mentioned, competency in bankruptcy litigation is what advisors are for, but there's no getting around the fact that someone (or some group) has to represent the masses based upon that advice.  And while a cut-throat attorney may offer excellent advice on navigating a situation like this, the whole purpose of having a committee to represent the victims is that you actually need people with the viewpoint of a survivor.  That simply isn't a mindset that a non-survivor attorney could effectively channel.

And since I'm assuming that these guys had a choice in the matter and weren't volun-told, they are there willingly and with at least a fair idea of what they'd be up against.  And your viewpoint of "They didn't do what I wanted done, so I think they've failed, but I don't blame them because they were nothing more than well-meaning stooges who never stood a chance anyway" strikes me as fairly condescending and puts me in mind of patting a little girl on her head and telling her "Don't worry, why don't you just go play with your dolls".

11 hours ago, Muttsy said:

I don’t think the bankruptcy code except liquidation should be allowed in sexual abuse cases at all. These were not mistakes of business judgment. This was a criminal conspiracy lasting a century. 

Which crime exactly do you think the BSA conspired to commit?  Let's try to avoid too much hyperbole here.  While I'm sure that at some point over the last 100 years the occasional BSA official has done things there were overtly illegal, your feeling that something is "wrong" doesn't make it criminal.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

Are they going to lock and key the transcripts in the vault? 

That is up to Century. I suppose perhaps Kosnoff or his lawyers could also pay for a copy and post.

Edited by CynicalScouter
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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, elitts said:

And your viewpoint of "They didn't do what I wanted done, so I think they've failed, but I don't blame them because they were nothing more than well-meaning stooges who never stood a chance anyway" strikes me as fairly condescending and puts me in mind of patting a little girl on her head and telling her "Don't worry, why don't you just go play with your dolls".

For the record, I believe he apologized and gave context for his “fear,” based on personal experience that created deep regret and it sounded like sorrow:

“Fair points brother. It’s premature. 
I speak from personal sad experience where I wasn’t up to it and I let people down that I cared for. It’simportant that a man know his limitations.”

Edited by ThenNow
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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, elitts said:

Which crime exactly do you think the BSA conspired to commit?

My guess is the claim is going to be some form of

Etc.

 

Edited by CynicalScouter
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21 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

My guess is the claim is going to be some form of

The Michigan AG might be able to fill us in at some point, as may any other state AGs who board the train. Gonna be inerestin’. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, ThenNow said:

The Michigan AG might be able to fill us in at some point, as may any other state AGs who board the train.

But here's the thing: to my knowledge NONE of the Catholic Dioceses have ever been criminally prosecuted. And not only did they hide the abuse, they actively moved priests around.

And in the case of the Pennsylvania investigative grand jury and even the prior work in Michigan by that state's AG there was never criminal indictments of dioceses, only individuals.

The reason I suspect is that

  • Many/most states have criminal statutes of limitations (44 states) on felony sex offenses.  Kentucky, Maryland, North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia, West Virginia, and Wyoming appear to be the exceptions https://www.rainn.org/state-state-guide-statutes-limitations
  • Everything else amounts to some version of criminal conspiracy and/or accessory after the fact of a crime. Again, criminal statutes of limitations apply

I just do not see criminal charges against BSA happening in light of the above, especially after the lack of criminal prosecutions in the Diocesan cases.

 

Edited by CynicalScouter
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11 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

... I just do not see criminal charges against BSA happening in light of the above, ...

The way the US code reads, a criminal charge would be a very high bar.

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, qwazse said:

The way the US code reads, a criminal charge would be a very high bar.

Right, that's the other factor. In a civil proceeding you'd have a lower evidence threshold (preponderance of the evidence) whereas in a criminal it's beyond a reasonable doubt.

I just do not see a wave of state AGs coming in and prosecuting BSA or councils.

Edited by CynicalScouter
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