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Chapter 11 Announced - Part 4 Revised Plan


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On 7/2/2021 at 11:18 AM, CynicalScouter said:

Trust Claim Submissions: You need to submit a brand new document with lots more information and be subject to interviews.

Is there an example of this type of document from any other case? I’m eager to see what might be out there to gauge how exhaustive this thing might be. Thanks. 

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@CynicalScouter Thanks from me and frankly, surely everyone, for tracking on the status of National's bankruptcy pleadings, and the procedural steps, past and pending, in the Bankruptcy case. And your

Okay. Enough. If you aren't talking about court proceedings then drop it.  It would be a shame to lock this thread now.

A few random observations from watching this bankruptcy unfold over the past several months: The focus has clearly been on protecting the national organization first and then the local councils.

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18 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

So, will they just tack on a $150 price hike to HA tuitions as a "make you pay for our sins" tax?

Probably more subtle, like upping the cost by $100 for all HA fees but not explaining why.

16 hours ago, MYCVAStory said:

Ask to see the TCC detailed analysis of your LCs finances.

I've been told by mine they cannot release the information on advice of legal counsel/per an NDA.

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13 hours ago, ThenNow said:

Also related to the Trust Claim Submission(s), in what order will claims be assessed or will this be a team of people (committee) charged with wrangling various batches/buckets of claims to move them down the conveyor belt toward the actual Trustee?

Modified FIFO: First In, First Out. Those with "Exigentn Health Circumstances" get pushed to the front. Otherwise, it if FIFO.

See page 141 https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/1d5f346b-47b8-43d3-b4cf-4a0393aa8256_5466.pdf

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41 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Probably more subtle, like upping the cost by $100 for all HA fees but not explaining why.

I've been told by mine they cannot release the information on advice of legal counsel/per an NDA.

So, the LC, which like all the others has expressed its financial and corporate independence consistently, has received a financial analysis from an outside source and doesn't want to share it with its members?  Seems to me it would be happy to if the analysis was incorrect and too optimistic.  Then again, bad news is always best kept secret isn't it.  NOW is the time for everyone connected to the BSA to be screaming for transparency.  The lack of it has put us all in this position and must end.   Ask to see this "NDA."

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Posted (edited)

Just heard from a council… they have to sell all of their camps to cover the cost.  Not official yet, so I’m holding out hope.
 

Another council is selling their offices and camps and will purchase a cheap warehouse where they plan to have a permanent PWD track, climbing wall and a area for indoor tent camping.  

This next month is about to get real rough as we see the impact of $650M.   It will be especially rough knowing that HA bases were protected while LC camps are being discarded left and right.  

Edited by Eagle1993
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 None of our three camps apparently will have to be sold. We are in a non extended SOL area. A large endowment and other reserves will be tapped, it appears as of this moment. 

But the winds may switch suddenly, who knows?

It feels that we are momentarily in the eye of this perfect storm.  

Now we deal with the reality of a 70% loss of membership and perhaps the loss of many of our chartering organizations on the near horizon. 

 

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Will be interested to hear what my LC will do. I suspect I know because I am pretty sure there is a camp they have wanted to sell anyway.  That will upset a few folks but nothing like if the main camp was sold.

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2 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

This next month is about to get real rough as we see the impact of $650M.   It will be especially rough knowing that HA bases were protected while LC camps are being discarded left and right.  

Leaves a bad taste in my mouth, when you consider that most Scouting takes place on the local level. 
My council is in states that have not extended the SOL. There does not seem to be plans to sell either of our camps, but we'll see what happens. 

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On 6/29/2021 at 9:19 AM, fred8033 said:

Me too.  I have no magical hat either.  BUT, it seems like we are in for some type of mapping / tracking of insurer paid versus victim was in which org and when.  Same reasoning as property sales from a LC would get allocated to a specific set of scouts that was victimized from that area and not for all 84,000 scouts in the case.  ... Some policies will have limits.  Some won't have umbrella coverage for these cases.  I'm sure will be pooled as similar coverage.

Is the real question ... is there one or two major insurers for this whole thing?  Is it really just Chubb and (???) for most of BSA and the LCs?  Or are there other insurers involved.  Are there different COIs involved?  The 1970 COI has no limit versus 1980s has a limit per case and the 1990s has a overall limit per policy?  

It seems like a mess to litigate.

 

Edited by johnsch322
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Kosnoff is saying the insurance piece is also dead. He’s making sense. 
At the last hearing the judge saw the insurance carriers strongly object to the idea that she could approve trust distribution procedures that would be binding on the insurance companies. She made comments suggesting that she agreed.

The insurers’ reaction is understandable. An insured defendant can’t damage someone and then agree with that person to a claim resolution program that is binding on that person’s insurance company unless the insurance company agrees to be bound by the award. 
 

Apparently no court has ever found a Trust Distribution Procedure such as this one can be forced on insurers. 
 

I think this is what Kosnoff means when he says the BSA and Coalition/TCC/FCR are telling “fairy tales” in order to hoodwink survivors. 
 

Down another costly rabbit hole for nothing. 

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8 minutes ago, Muttsy said:

Kosnoff is saying the insurance piece is also dead. He’s making sense. 
At the last hearing the judge saw the insurance carriers strongly object to the idea that she could approve trust distribution procedures that would be binding on the insurance companies. She made comments suggesting that she agreed.

The insurers’ reaction is understandable. An insured defendant can’t damage someone and then agree with that person to a claim resolution program that is binding on that person’s insurance company unless the insurance company agrees to be bound by the award. 
 

Apparently no court has ever found a Trust Distribution Procedure such as this one can be forced on insurers. 
 

I think this is what Kosnoff means when he says the BSA and Coalition/TCC/FCR are telling “fairy tales” in order to hoodwink survivors. 
 

Down another costly rabbit hole for nothing. 

From my understanding and what some others here have said is that there will be attempts at settlements with the carriers (I.e. Hartford Settlement but for larger amounts) and if that doesn’t succeed there will be individual lawsuits filed in state courts to bring pressure. If a settlement can accomplished between the trustee and carrier’s that money will be awarded thru the settlement trust. 

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3 minutes ago, Muttsy said:

Lawsuits against whom? If this plan is confirmed, BSA and LC’s will be released and can’t be sued. 

I believe that the lawsuits can be filed against BSA and LC’s but only the insurers would have to actually pay. One of the more knowledgeable members would know more than myself. 

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So the Settlement Trustee standing in the shoes of the BSA/LC insured sues himself. 
Sorta like when that Woody Allen character who cross examines himself in that Take the Money and Run movie?

Could someone please explain to this poor mentally challenged soul how this is supposed to work?
 

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