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Chapter 11 Announced - Part 4 Revised Plan


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9 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

@ThenNow ... So, civil liability was retroactively extended as Supreme Court applied a difference between civil and criminal.  Criminal cases were still bound by SOLs.  So, are corporate criminal cases also bound by SOL?  Or is there a SOL difference between human criminal cases versus a corporate criminal case?  

It seems then that we are bound by only recent criminal activity.  For example, what is the SOL for the appropriate criminal activity for not reporting.   Sexual abuse cases have extended SOLs, such as memory + years or adult + years.  But what about failure to mandatory report?  

Essentially, what crime and what look back window?  It seems the SOL starting point is NOW and then minus the window.  7 years.  10 years?  15 years?  I'm hoping BSA was following the appropriate state law for the that time window.  When did MI make youth program leaders mandatory reporters?  

I don't know all of those answers, but remember this is a statewide, AG-driven investigation, not a prosecution. As others have said, the similar RCC probe in PA resulted in a report. The one in MI one imprisonment, I believe. Big difference. The criminal SoL's we've talked about in the past where about law enforcement and DAs prosecuting abusers. I believe this is an entirely different animal. I'm sure @CynicalScouter and @Mutsy can flesh this out far better. I am not doing well today. Trying to adjust my thinking, get my head around this and accept how this has played out. "Acceptance is key," as the say in 12 Steps. 

I haven't checked, but I assumed BSA will be able to pull in the direct abuse claims and get released from them, as well. Any one see that.

A sad day for me all around. I'm glad you guys are, to one degree or another, heartened. I feel sick,

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@CynicalScouter Thanks from me and frankly, surely everyone, for tracking on the status of National's bankruptcy pleadings, and the procedural steps, past and pending, in the Bankruptcy case. And your

Okay. Enough. If you aren't talking about court proceedings then drop it.  It would be a shame to lock this thread now.

A few random observations from watching this bankruptcy unfold over the past several months: The focus has clearly been on protecting the national organization first and then the local councils.

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6 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

I don't know about my fellows, but I felt pretty darn gut punched when I got up this morning. Not what I had hoped for or expected. More to be reveal, I suppose and then the insurance circus. I don't feel like the LC contribution is adequate. Not at all. The breakdown/breakout, if we see it, will be telling. I doubt more comforting, but informative.  

Looking at the plan, I think the survivors got the lion share of National BSA assets.  While National BSA appears to keep their HA bases, they gave up other restricted assets and took on additional debt to do so (including ongoing payments to the Settlement Trust).  I think this is pretty risky for National BSA, but it is what it is.

At the council side, I think you will have to wait to see the council by council settlement details.  It appears that the settlement is about 1/3 of the total unrestricted assets of all councils combined.  That said, some councils may be paying nearly 100% of their unrestricted assets (ours is actually looking to sell off restricted assets to pay for the settlement) while others may be escaping given low number of claims/risk.  All I know is that every camp in my area that my Troop & Pack have used is now either sold or being considered for sale.  

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29 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

Looking at the plan, I think the survivors got the lion share of National BSA assets.  While National BSA appears to keep their HA bases, they gave up other restricted assets and took on additional debt to do so (including ongoing payments to the Settlement Trust).  I think this is pretty risky for National BSA, but it is what it is.

At the council side, I think you will have to wait to see the council by council settlement details.  It appears that the settlement is about 1/3 of the total unrestricted assets of all councils combined.  That said, some councils may be paying nearly 100% of their unrestricted assets (ours is actually looking to sell off restricted assets to pay for the settlement) while others may be escaping given low number of claims/risk.  All I know is that every camp in my area that my Troop & Pack have used is now either sold or being considered for sale.  

As I've said, I have great confidence in the guys on the TCC and their professionals. I'm more looking at my broken expectations since 2.18.20, which is not entirely aggregate numbers driven. An enormous amount of turmoil and anguish has been endured over these many month. It will continue.

I hear you. I do. Those who have followed me know I am not about obliteration. In that light, I should've clarified. I agree the BSA has stepped up. It was clearly the right thing to do. I wish it hadn't taken so long or required so much pressure and contention. I will wait to see more from the LCs. I know what my LC has and I doubt it will slow their roll whatsoever. I'm also very keen to learn about the direct abuse claims. If they fall under the channeling injunction, I think that will be terribly unjust.

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26 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

A sad day for me all around. I'm glad you guys are, to one degree or another, heartened. I feel sick,

Wishing you the best.  This whole process is an emotional gut punch.

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11 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

As I've said, I have great confidence in the guys on the TCC and their professionals. I'm more looking at my broken expectations since 2.18.20, which is not entirely aggregate numbers driven. An enormous amount of turmoil and anguish has been endured over these many month. It will continue.

I do feel for you and everyone who is a "stake holder" in the outcome. You guys especially, but it doesn't seem to really stop the turmoil for anyone, just a portion of it, no? It is not clear where insurance stands. It is not clear which LCs are in or out. If they are in, what if they can't come up with the funds? They declare bankruptcy? What about any key CO's. It seems like step 1 in a 5 step process or so. Gotta finish step 1 before step 2, but we are not yet at the final step. I guess the other part is that it is clear it is a multistep process. The BSA seemed to promote "this will be a 1 and done type of thing". It is now "this is step 1 of a many step, many year thing".

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Yesterday I was a recipient of an email from the law firm representing me. It emphasized that this really is just the beginning and that the earliest they expect any of the settlement to be distributed will be in about 9 months. This will be a slow process but the real process has just started. It has been anguishing up to now and I don’t expect it to get any easier. @ThenNowwe still need you around. Your insights are valuable and you and everyone else relieves some of my stress. Thank you all. 

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21 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

I do feel for you and everyone who is a "stake holder" in the outcome. You guys especially, but it doesn't seem to really stop the turmoil for anyone, just a portion of it, no?

Thank you. I'll receive that on behalf of the others here. The issue is, in part, many of us had settled in with our life of therapy (or not) and managing our lives as best we could. This came out of nowhere and sent some of us back to square one or two...others had not reached that point and had to ramp up and face it out of the blue. Very tricky and I don't think many understand that, maybe especially the judge, given her passivity. Being "equitably compensated," as promised is as much about money as it is honoring the pain and fallout, as it is a number. Low numbers feels less so.

21 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

It is not clear where insurance stands.

My wife has spent her carrier in the high levels of insurance. When I told her I hoped this could be basically a wrap and handed over to the Trustee in a year, she looked at me and shook her head. "Not a chance." (Add) I suppose it will be handed over, but the insurance "battle" has yet to be waged.

21 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

It is not clear which LCs are in or out. If they are in, what if they can't come up with the funds? They declare bankruptcy? What about any key CO's. It seems like step 1 in a 5 step process or so. Gotta finish step 1 before step 2, but we are not yet at the final step. I guess the other part is that it is clear it is a multistep process. The BSA seemed to promote "this will be a 1 and done type of thing". It is now "this is step 1 of a many step, many year thing".

Dunno. I think key COs (and not so key) may be whistling in the dark and playing pin the liability on the CO, as applicable. So far, it doesn't appear they were invited to the party. Yes. At least we have a step, at long last.

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6 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

This is key:

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In January, the Michigan State Police notified Dana Nessel’s office that 1,700 of those sex-abuse claims were in the state. Her office said it now thinks that up to 3,000 victims were abused in the state.

For those trying to use the 84,000 as the metric for the amount of abuse in BSA, this is once again a reminder that number should NOT be used and was/is an undercount.

The 82,500 doesn't include victims who are dead and didn't tell their story to an heir, or who didn't see the advertisements or didn't connect them to their abuse, or who just chose to stay out of the bankruptcy for some reason. But I wouldn't assume so quickly that the the 82,500 should be immediately doubled, either. Consider:

  • The TCC's numbers released in March show 2,970 cases in Michigan. It's possible BSA gave the state one batch of names from claims in January, when claims normalization was a little over halfway done, and another more recently, perhaps even after giving the TCC the data that they released in March.
  • Of that 84,000, at least 10% were blank/unknown. A proportional number of those 1,700 would be 170 additional claims, not the entire difference, but a reasonable number for the AG to guess at when discussing the case without further analysis.
  • The TCC's table is based on one state per claim, but some claims could actually implicate more than one state... maybe a Scout lived and was registered in Michigan, but was abused while at a high-adventure activity in New York, or vice versa.

 

Edited by DavidLeeLambert
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A couple of good points I have seen in other online forums.

  • This is not an approved plan.  It is simply an updated plan. 
  • Kosnoff twitted an hour ago that he is currently reviewing all 387 pages, a lot of changes with new info.
  • Some council connected individual has stated that there is no deal.  They went on to say that this is a proposal that they already gone beyond and there is a lot of stuff not being filed yet.  This individual has stated that everyone should wait for an official announcement.  

So ... it perhaps this is something BSA needed to get out to start a clock and get official feedback but it is likely not going to be the final plan.  

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https://nypost.com/2021/06/18/boy-scouts-hoping-to-reach-summer-settlement-with-sex-abuse-victims/

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“This amended Plan marks a significant step toward a global resolution of past abuse claims. It incorporates a number of updates following constructive mediation, which we believe will garner significant support for confirmation,” the spokesperson for the Boy Scouts said. “Importantly, the BSA is hopeful that this Plan, or one very similar to it, will have the support of a supermajority of survivors.”

No comment from the TCC or Coalition. 

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Since I am naïve, I am not sure, but this does seem to be the first plant that really cuts to the bone for national itself. Thus there is less to nit-pick. But who knows what is in the 387 pages until one reads them. @ThenNow They used such poor words about promising those harmed being "equitably compensated". They should have said "equitable distribution of agreed to liquated funds". Doesn't quite have the same honor behind it. 

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Those that joined the forum to track the news, share their perspective as abuse survivors:

Thank you I've learned a lot from your posts , please keep coming around, sadly this still isn't over, and for you all, it never truly will be. It makes me sad that an organization that has so profoundly shaped my life for the better has had such the opposite effect for so many, and it gives me a great burden to carry as a leader today, to do the best possible to make sure that the youth entrusted to me are safe from harm. 

3 hours ago, DavidLeeLambert said:

The 82,500 doesn't include victims who are dead and didn't tell their story to an heir, or who didn't see the advertisements or didn't connect them to their abuse, or who just chose to stay out of the bankruptcy for some reason. But I wouldn't assume so quickly that the the 82,500 should be immediately doubled, either. Consider:

  • The TCC's numbers released in March show 2,970 cases in Michigan. It's possible BSA gave the state one batch of names from claims in January, when claims normalization was a little over halfway done, and another more recently, perhaps even after giving the TCC the data that they released in March.
  • Of that 84,000, at least 10% were blank/unknown. A proportional number of those 1,700 would be 170 additional claims, not the entire difference, but a reasonable number for the AG to guess at when discussing the case without further analysis.
  • The TCC's table is based on one state per claim, but some claims could actually implicate more than one state... maybe a Scout lived and was registered in Michigan, but was abused while at a high-adventure activity in New York, or vice versa.

 

It's really hard to say. For an example of a highly public case right now, UoM's Dr. Anderson may have assaulted up to 100 victims of various ages. Some of the sexual predators roaming around in Scouting may have similar counts. The carnage of these evil people, and the cowards who allowed them to operate, will never be truly and completely known. 

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2 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

They used such poor words about promising those harmed being "equitably compensated". They should have said "equitable distribution of agreed to liquated funds". Doesn't quite have the same honor behind it. 

Agreed. Better to under promise and over deliver than the opposite. I believe they were totally naive in expecting a max of 12,000 claims. Honestly, they could’ve asked experts to explain to them that the potential was far greater. As an attorney, I would never have approved the release of that statement. Never ever. 

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5 hours ago, ThenNow said:

You may not be rid of me for a while. I may linger and cause trouble. ;) 

When this is all over, we can get back to discussing red shoulder loops vs green.  ;)

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