Troop change to Catholic Youth Ministry

[fred8033 1591]

Virtus training and additional background check.  A church admin nightmare for non-members.  The church might be boxed in to stay complaint with training and background check requirements. 

I ran a program at my Catholic church that had a large number of non-Catholic volunteers.   There was a transition to require Catholic vulnerable person training and tracking background checks differently.  ... It killed the program.  ... We depended on dozens of volunteers from many areas.  Multiple parishes.  Multiple faiths.  Some of no-faith.   .... Tracking their training.  Getting them "VIRTUS" trained.  An extra church special background check ...  It quickly killed the program.  We had always required apps and background checks.  ...  The training and background checks were coordinated thru the home parish.  ... aka a sponsor church ... If you are not a member, the background investigation cost needing to be paid for by the church and the church signing you up for VIRTUS training was really hard.  

We went from a great volunteer program that I had the honor of running it for almost ten years to something our volunteers had to support out of other churches.  NONE of the other churches had a YPT requirement.    https://www.virtusonline.org/virtus/  ... FYI ... the Virtus training was excellent.  I always thought BSA & Virtus training I took were very complementary.  One procedural (BSA).  One eye opening (Virtus)  ... None of the other churches had a background check requirement.  ....  Dozens of local churches.    Lutheran.  Episcopal.  Methodist.  Jewish.  etc, etc, etc.  To this day what I ran thru my church, I now volunteer at a different church.  I'm still surprised my home church that I love requires the extra steps and the other church does not.

Coordinating across parishes ... We even had a nightmare coordinating Catholic volunteers from a different parish (possibly incorporated separately, property is separate, admin separate, etc).  The background checks are considered PRIVATE.  Required individual release forms.  Then, each home parish had to release data one-by-one.  ...  Admins (aka real individuals) have enough challenges organizing their own members.  Organizing from other parishes and non-Catholic members is really hard. 

Serious issue ... Recent scandals and legal cases have been hard.  New procedure.  Extra oversight.  The Church must take this seriously.  Getting it right.  Keeping records current.   Paperwork in-place before the involvement.  ... Changes continued to happen each year.  .... Real challenges.  Real cost.  

Timeline  ... Think of this ... person wants to volunteer.  Virtus first (schedule, take, a few weeks).  Then money for background check.  Do background check.  then BSA registered and BSA training completed.  Easily a month passes.  Person can start volunteering.   Every month, church needs to check for who will need their data refreshed.  New background check.  New training.  etc.  Nine months later it starts again. (two month buffer).   Then on every twelve months after that.  

My recommendation ... is there a middle ground?  I really, really doubt they are rejecting you or your son because of who you are.  I bet it's a huge admin nightmare.  QUESTION - Is there some way for you to volunteer / help without being registered on the committee?  Campouts require BSA registration and YPT, but not necessarily troop registration.  So, volunteer somewhere else to be registered and trained.  Such as MBC or District or ??? or OA ? or ...   Then, continue to help your troop.  Drive scouts.   Cook for adults on camp outs.  Etc.  

Heck, the best job might be as standing cook for the adult patrol.

 

 

Edited June 18, 2021 by fred8033

[TGB 0]

I had no problem taking the Virtus "Protecting God's Children" training. The local archdiocese had in person training in October that I was not going to do because of Covid.  Zoom training was available but you needed to register for that through the church and that information was not provided to me by the committee chair nor the church. It was provided to others. When I tried to explain the situation to the committee chair and scout master I was informed that it was too late and that I was off the committee. I actually was removed months earlier and no one informed me.  Another parent gave me the number to call at the archdiocese for the training and that person informed me of the new rules. It then became clear why I was not given the information and why they wanted me out. As a result the CC and Scoutmaster and I have had some unfortunate exchanges including me being called and Anti Catholic Bigot. To be clear, prior to these new rules everything was great. I considered the other leaders friends and I'm sure they thought the same of me. 

[fred8033 1591]

30 minutes ago, TGB said:

... training was available but you needed to register for that through the church ...

This is the root of everything.  It's something individual churches need to find a way around.  BUT, it's hard.  

I'll sadly attribute the rest to words said in frustration by everyone.  I'm sure the SM/CC and others were frustrated too.  It's a huge mess.  

If they were friends before, find a way to patch the friendships.  Apologies.  It's easy to get defensive when  we are affected and we are helping our kids.  


I'm betting historically, the troop has not been seen as a tightly linked program of the church.  ... BEFORE ... NOW, driven by scandals and legal cases.  Now, newly recognized liabilities made visible by BSA bankruptcy abuse settlements and possible CO exposure.   NOW, the church must treat this as a church program following the church's official procedures.  Training.  Background checks. etc.  ... It's why I'm recommending my troop's charter org sign a "facility use" agreement instead being a charter org.

A few nice words and seeing how you can make this work will go a far way.  

Also, if your son was having a good experience in the troop ... find a way to let it go.  Let your son have HIS experience.  Try to minimize how your experience affects his.

 

Edited June 18, 2021 by fred8033

[fred8033 1591]

Just checked the G2SS ... Register as a MBC and complete training.  The G2SS says anyone camping more than 72 hours must be registered as a leader.  ... It doesn't say "in your unit".  Just as a leader.   

If you register as a MBC and take the YPT training, then show your BSA registration and BSA training certificates to the troop.  As a CC, I'd accept that as fulfilling the requirement to be registered.  I'd let you camp with the troop.  The question is whether the church requires a Virtus training for camping with troop too.  Or just being a key leader.  

There must be other non-Catholic members in the exact same boat.

Edited June 18, 2021 by fred8033

[TGB 0]

I have the YPT and am still technically registered through district as a MB councilor. The problem with moving forward is how sneaky this was done. If they had just been up front from the beginning it wouldn't be personal.  When this all started I believe the local church requested only parish members as leaders if possible. I don't believe the CC or SM wanted to tell me straight out so as not to cause a fuss. They still haven't informed other parents that the troop is now considered a catholic youth ministry. The CC went so far as to email the other parents and lied that I filed a complaint against him and the priest with council. The other leaders seem irritated that I even discovered the new rules. 

What is also of issue to my wife and I is that these new rules are blatantly discriminatory.  That goes against our core values. We remain quite conflicted if we pull our son away from his very best friends over the stunt they pulled on me, and the discriminatory rules that we can not abide. To be clear this is not a commentary on Catholicism or even the local church. It seems to all have arisen from the Scouting bankruptcy, liability changes, and the RCC's own legal troubles.  

[InquisitiveScouter 1653]

7 hours ago, fred8033 said:

Just checked the G2SS ... Register as a MBC and complete training.  The G2SS says anyone camping more than 72 hours must be registered as a leader.  ... It doesn't say "in your unit".  Just as a leader.   

If you register as a MBC and take the YPT training, then show your BSA registration and BSA training certificates to the troop.  As a CC, I'd accept that as fulfilling the requirement to be registered.  I'd let you camp with the troop.  The question is whether the church requires a Virtus training for camping with troop too.  Or just being a key leader.  

There must be other non-Catholic members in the exact same boat.

Be careful with this.  You must consult with your local council for their interpretation.  Our council interprets this as a registered leader with that unit, having been approved by the CO/COR.

I made this same inquiry to National for interpretation and was skewered, btw...

Tread with care...

[fred8033 1591]

9 hours ago, TGB said:

I have the YPT and am still technically registered through district as a MB councilor. The problem with moving forward is how sneaky this was done. If they had just been up front from the beginning it wouldn't be personal.  When this all started I believe the local church requested only parish members as leaders if possible. I don't believe the CC or SM wanted to tell me straight out so as not to cause a fuss. They still haven't informed other parents that the troop is now considered a catholic youth ministry. The CC went so far as to email the other parents and lied that I filed a complaint against him and the priest with council. The other leaders seem irritated that I even discovered the new rules. 

What is also of issue to my wife and I is that these new rules are blatantly discriminatory.  That goes against our core values. We remain quite conflicted if we pull our son away from his very best friends over the stunt they pulled on me, and the discriminatory rules that we can not abide. To be clear this is not a commentary on Catholicism or even the local church. It seems to all have arisen from the Scouting bankruptcy, liability changes, and the RCC's own legal troubles.  

One person's stunt is another person's confusion on how to deal with a difficult / confusing situation.  Not everyone ... including myself ... always handles difficult / uncomfortable situations well.  It takes real grace.  I don't handle it.  If you can, cut them slack for having handled it badly.  There was a friendship.  It's probably still there somewhere. 

[Protoclete 45]

On 6/17/2021 at 9:21 PM, TGB said:

My son's pack and troop had always been welcoming to ALL including me as committee person. Like many troops sponsored by a Catholic church it has recently become a Catholic Youth Ministry. We are not Catholic. The new rules from national committee on catholic scouting and those of the local archdiocese are openly discriminatory. I have been removed from the troop committee but my son is allowed to stay. It has been suggested that we find another troop but no other troop locally is viable. I hate to see my son leave scouting and he is upset about the notion of not being with friends. The future of the troop and how far the new rules will be enforced is apparently up to the parish priest. I'm not so much looking for debate but asking if others have run into this same issue. 

Hi, TGB. I'm very sorry to hear this, and a bit confused. I am a long-time Catholic scouter, chaplain, and theologian, and I'm not aware of any new rules that are particularly discriminatory or that would have prompted this. I wonder if there is a new pastor or COR who is taking things to an extreme that is not necessary. 

Scouting has been viewed as Catholic Youth Ministry since 1912. That's not new. Not every parish does this well, but the ideal is that the COR is the youth minister or other parish staff person responsible for youth ministry and/or family religious programs, or someone designated by them. A unit chartered at a parish is an extension of that parish's ministry - but that has never meant, nor does it mean now, that you must be Catholic to be a registered Scouter in the unit. Some parishes might require that the Scoutmaster or committee chair be a member of the parish but it is unusual in the extreme to not allow someone to volunteer just because they are not Catholic or not a member of the parish. In fact, it is contrary to the Church's own views on ecumenism and interfaith dialogue. 

What is the part that is discriminatory and what the new rules you are being told prompted this? Were you told that because you are not Catholic you cannot be a leader, or something else? 

As others have pointed out, the chartering org, in this case the parish, does have a lot of leeway in its own expectations of leaders in its own scout programs, so it may be a new more triumphalisitic pastor. Or something changed in  the leadership of the diocesan catholic committee on scouting that is making it more restrictive than it ought to be. 

Bottom line, there's nothing from the NCCS that says that only Catholics can be leaders in Catholic scout troops, and every one I've been in has active and welcome non-Catholics. 

There may be a requirement for everyone to complete the diocesan safeguarding training for volunteers in YPT, but as a volunteer in a parish program, even if not a member of the parish or for the Catholic Church, it is still the responsibility of the parish to provide that training for you - no differently than for the members of the parish doing so. 

[SSScout 1615]

It has always been BSA's policy that so long as the CO follows the basic BSA policies (requirements, YPT etc.) the CO can set other membership requirements.  Note the CoJCoLDS example.   Some years ago, I helped establish a Troop at a Roman Catholic Church.  They openly required that boys and families be Catholic.  The Troop was very active for about three years, then gradually dried up and disappeared.  

We had a Muslim Troop some years ago,  they declared anyone could join, realizing that their diet and activiites would be faith driven.  Unfortunately, their membership was drawn from  a very wide area( like  30 miles some folks !) and eventually lost their leadership due to work assignments.   Sic gloria mundi. 

I also hear some other issues in the background of the OP's comments.  I am sorry we cannot counsel better from afar.