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New groupings in the new Service Territories


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BSA did away with regions and areas on June 1 and replaced them with  16 Service Territories.  The OA still has Regions and Sections but they don’t necessarily align with the new Service Territories.

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This just reminds me of the org charts I used to see when nobody really had any good ideas - just shuffle and hope. It's sort of vision lite: we kinda know what the problems are but we really have no

Nowhere in this list do they address the volunteer problem for one. 

This?  

On 10/5/2021 at 9:55 PM, Oldscout448 said:

Our lodge has 26 chapters at last count.  For the lodge chief to work directly with that many chapter chiefs proved to be difficult indeed. So we grouped three or four chapters that touched each other geographically into areas. Each with its own Chief and Advisor. Precovid  I believe we had 6, now we have consolidated to 4 due to membership drop.

Hope this helps.

 

On 10/5/2021 at 11:45 PM, HelpfulTracks said:

Based on a previous post you made, I think there might be some confusion with the terms your son is using. I could be wrong though.

...

As OldSCout448 said, some have a level between Lodge and Chapter for organizational purposes and they may have one or more of these officer positions. I think that mainly occurs among larger Lodges (either those with many Chapters, many members or those geographically spread out.)

 

 

Thank you both for replying.

He's definitely an Area Vice Chief, but the situation is exactly as you both described, our Lodge uses the "Area" designation to cover 5 or so Chapters.  Each area has a Chief and a couple Vice Chief roles that report up to the Lodge leadership.

I managed to find the map on our Lodge's website, but it was the lack of any findable, formal documentation on what exactly an Area was that was throwing me for a loop.

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24 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

Your council has 26 districts? OMG!

I know, right!

I can only guess that it is either

  1. a council that has a large metro area and densely populated
  2. a western council that covers a huge expanse of territory
  3. or a council that has been merged with several others

 

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1 hour ago, HelpfulTracks said:

I know, right!

I can only guess that it is either

  1. a council that has a large metro area and densely populated
  2. a western council that covers a huge expanse of territory
  3. or a council that has been merged with several others

 

#1 is correct!   Washington DC,  central  Maryland, and northern Virginia.

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1 minute ago, Oldscout448 said:

#1 is correct!   Washington DC,  central  Maryland, and northern Virginia.

DelMarVa!! 

I have several versions of you CSP's from the 70's and 80's I traded for at '81 NSJ. 

Or I should say, my son now has them now. I just get to look at them. 

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55 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

It still doesn’t make sense. 
 

DelMarVa’s website…

The Council covers fourteen counties and is divided into 8 Scouting districts.”

Actually, now that I read your reply I think I jumped the gun on DelMarVA, He did not mention Delaware, 

It is likely National Capital Area - which has many districts including the Virgin Islands. 

and BTW I have some of their beautiful patches from the 70's and 80's

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18 hours ago, HelpfulTracks said:

It is likely National Capital Area - which has many districts including the Virgin Islands. 

21, not 26, but 21 is still past the OMG that is too many districts level! It says they serve 36,000 scouts. Really? That seems crazy too. It blows my mind that the tools and other items of the BSA can scale from councils with 300 scouts to councils with 36,000 scouts. 

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1 hour ago, mrjohns2 said:

21, not 26, but 21 is still past the OMG that is too many districts level! It says they serve 36,000 scouts. Really? That seems crazy too. It blows my mind that the tools and other items of the BSA can scale from councils with 300 scouts to councils with 36,000 scouts. 

Not sure how many districts they have but I have been told that the council for Houston had 60K  scouts (pre-Covid), I think it is the largest, but not sure. Chigcago, LA, NYC have to be pretty large too. Though I have also been told NYC council is broken into councils by borough, so not sure how they count out. 

And yes, it is a pretty elastic system, but then again the base unit is 6-8 scouts. Not a bad program structure, I would say. 

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4 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

21, not 26, but 21 is still past the OMG that is too many districts level! It says they serve 36,000 scouts. Really? That seems crazy too. It blows my mind that the tools and other items of the BSA can scale from councils with 300 scouts to councils with 36,000 scouts. 

I stand corrected.  Every  3 to 7 years there is a revamping of districts and boundaries.   Guess I need to keep closer track.

And  I agree that it's a huge ungainly beast sometimes.

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On 10/12/2021 at 6:07 PM, mrjohns2 said:

Your council has 26 districts? OMG!

With the various mergers. the chapter numbers and district numbers don't necessarily align.  Our district has 3 chapters, which coincide with the three legacy districts.  The OA was allowed to decide whether or not to merge.

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On 10/13/2021 at 8:17 PM, HelpfulTracks said:

Though I have also been told NYC council is broken into councils by borough, so not sure how they count out.

Greater New York Councils (No. 640, properly written in plural) is a confederation of five borough councils. They are organized as follows:

Bronx Council (No. 641)

  • Bronx River District

Brooklyn Council (No. 642)

  • Breukelen District
  • Lenape Bay District

Manhattan Council (No.643)

  • Big Apple District

Queen Council (No. 644)

  • Founders District
  • Pathfinder District
  • Tomahawk District

Staten Island Council (No. 645)

  • Aquehonga District

The entirety of Greater New York Councils' territory is within the City of New York; it has no suburban area. So, there are eight districts in the city. The borough councils are similar to other "regular" councils in some ways and different in others. For instance, they form their own committees to select Silver Beaver recipients, but the borough executive is more like a program director than a council Scout executive. GNYC also presents its own Silver Beaver awards. The borough councils do not have separate offices; everything is coordinated through the GNYC council service center. The borough councils do not have their own endowment funds, so James E. West Fellowships are awarded by GNYC but are recognized by the borough council, based on where the Scouter (or Scout) is active. Scouts and Scouters in units and at the district level wear CSPs that indicate their borough council. There is also a GNYC CSP which is worn by most professionals (excluding DEs and borough executives), by volunteers with GNYC positions (like the GNYC council commissioner) and by camp staffers.

I served as an ASM at the 2005 National Jamboree for a combined Manhattan-Bronx troop. One of the commissioners started talking about the other GNYC troops, and he was stunned that I hardly knew anything about what the other troops were doing, because they were from my council. When we organized for the Jamboree, there was a single member of the council staff who served as staff advisor for all the GNYC troops, but the troops didn't coordinate anything. We even wore different JSPs.

When I served as lodge contingent adviser for 2006 NOAC, they asked for my council number at check-in. I asked them which one they wanted: 640 or 643 (Manhattan). It took them a while to figure out who we were, because GNYC's organization is unique.

Up until about eight years ago, GNYC had five separate OA lodges: one for each borough council. The lodge numbers were 4, 24, 49, 82 and 112. These were merged into one new lodge. Guess which lodge number they kept.

The eight districts have been stable for about 15 years, perhaps closer to 20. Around 2002, Big Apple District was split into two new districts: Liberty and Freedom. The split lasted les than a year, and the districts were merged back together. During the period of the split, the new districts never had separate roundtables. Instead, there were Manhattan Council roundtables. Liberty and Freedom districts never even presented any District Awards of Merit or organized any camporees.

The most recent district merger in GNYC was in Bronx Council. Eastern District and New Horizon District were merged to form Bronx River District, which covers the entirety of Bronx Council.

Kintecoying Lodge #4 has six OA chapters:

  • Uteney Gohkos (Bronx River District)
  • Shu-Shu-Gah (Brooklyn Council)
  • Man-A-Hattin (Big Apple District)
  • Matinecock (Founders District)
  • Mespaetch (Pathfinder and Tomahawk Districts)
  • Aquehongian (Aquehonga District)

The chapter names in Brooklyn, Manhattan and Staten islander are the names of the former lodges before the merger. In the case of Brooklyn, the two districts share a chapter. Queens has three districts but only two chapters.

When I first joined Scouting in Brooklyn as a youth, there were 11 districts - just in Brooklyn - and 11 OA chapters. These were

  • Waramaug (Atlantic District)

  • Nakowa (Bath Beach District, where I grew up)

  • Lenhacki (Bushwick-Arlington District)

  • Petapan (Eastern District)

  • Achewen Shingue (Flatbush District)

  • Uchtama (Parkway District)

  • Showandasse (Sheepshead District)

  • Wambuli (Stuyford District)

  • Ktchquehellen (Sunrise District)

  • Nah-Ne-Wah-Ye (Five Bridges District)

  • Sakanenk (Kingsway District)

In 1979, Atlantic and Bath Beach Districts were merged to form Nieuw Utrecht District, Sheepshead, Sunrise and Kingsway Districts were merged to form Thunderbird District, Bushwick-Arlington and Eastern Districts were merged to form Rainbow District, and Parkway and Flatbush Districts were merged to form Midwout District. This resulted in six OA chapters:

  • Majawat (Nieuw Utrecht District)
  • Tequiechen (Rainbow District)
  • Achewen Shingue (Midwout District, keeping the name of Flatbush District's chapter)
  • Kotohke (Thunderbird District)
  • Wambuli (Stuyford District)
  • Nah-Ne-Wah-Ye (Five Bridges District)

These chapters were large enough to each run their own ordeals. The inaugural May 1980 ordeal for Majawat Chapter had more than 50 candidates.

In 1986, Rainbow District was split into two districts: Rainbow (the former Buchwick-Arlington District) and Dawn Star (the former Easter District). Petapan Chapter was reformed to serve the new Dawn Star District.

Shu-Shu-Gah Lodge eliminated chapters in 1994.

In 1995, Nieuw Utrecht, Stuyford and Five Bridges District were merged to form Lenape Bay District, and Rainbow, Midwout, Thunderbird and Dawn Star Districts were merged to form Breukelen District.

In 1997, chapters were reinstated to Shu-Shu-ah Lodge. Eluwak Chapter served the portion of Lenape Bay District that was formerly part of Nieuw Utrecht and Stuyford Districts. Phoenix Chapter served the portion of Lenape Bay District that was formerly part of Five Bridges District. Shawondasse Chapter served Breukelen District.

In 2004, Eluwak and Phoenix Chapters were merged to form Majachsin Chapter, which served the entirety of Lenape Bay District.

When the five New York City lodges merged in 2013, Shawondasse and Majachsin Chapters were merged to form Shu-Shu-Gah Chapter.

That's an awful lot of merger and consolidation, and that's just Brooklyn. It saddens me that Scouting's membership has decline so precipitously. While everyone understands that New York City is large, some don't realize the true magnitude. New York City has more than twice the population of Los Angeles, the second largest city in America. If Brooklyn became an independent city as it once was, New York City would still have the largest population of any city in the country, and Brooklyn would be America's fourth largest city, behind Chicago and ahead of Houston. Drawing from such a tremendous population, I wish we could attract more youth to the greatest program ever developed.

I'm now in Del-Mar-Va Council, and I feel the same frustration. We just don't seem to get as many youth involved as we should.

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On 10/13/2021 at 11:19 PM, Oldscout448 said:

And  I agree that it's a huge ungainly beast sometimes.

Being in Del-Mar-Va Council, we're in the same section as National Capitol Area Council, and they, Baltimore Area Council and we form a section with just three lodges. More than half of section conclave participants typically come from NCAC. It is a marvel to watch their lodge leadership tackle organizing their charges. Yes, an ungainly beast.

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5 hours ago, PeterHopkins said:

Being in Del-Mar-Va Council, we're in the same section as National Capitol Area Council, and they, Baltimore Area Council and we form a section with just three lodges. More than half of section conclave participants typically come from NCAC. It is a marvel to watch their lodge leadership tackle organizing their charges. Yes, an ungainly beast.

One of my pet peeves belonging to such a huge lodge is that 95% of all service is done at a chapter or area level and there is never any recognition for the scouts who pour hundreds of hours per year into the Order while juggling work, college, and the occasional girlfriend.   So a Founders Award which is specifically for lodge service and leadership isn't going to happen.

There is the Servant Leader award of course which can be awarded for service anywhere. But it is always voted upon by a committee at the lodge level and given our size it's unlikely that anyone on said committee has ever met anyone in our chapter except the chapter chief. It's not impossible I suppose but I can't remember anyone in the last 20 years ever getting one. 

I'm not claiming that the lodge is somehow prejudiced it's only natural that you would vote for the people you have personally seen working their tails off.  

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