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Michigan AG Investigating Abuse Claims in BSA


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21 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Every indication is that they (BSA) are playing this off as if the target(s) is/are the ABUSERS, not BSA as a corporate entity.

So, technically, the lead should be the SE and Council President of MI Crossroads? If the LCs are 100% separate and distinct entities, why did they "defer to National"? Hmmm...

If that is the play, they didn't watch her video or, if they did, don't understand the criminal investigation process and the nature of a joint operation like the one she's launched.

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Posted (edited)

Another article with a bit more info.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/michigan-attorney-general-state-police-investigating-sex-abuse-in-boy-scouts-of-america/ar-AAKBCht

I find this interesting and questionable, based on my experience both weeks before and after filing my POC. I had several discussions with attorneys at headquarters and other functionaries handling survivor calls. What I was told more than once is they are making sure the alleged abusers named are on their internal list and reported to local law enforcement. When I said I had interacted with the local Sheriff's Dept in 2003-2004 about my abuser, they said, "since you've already notified law enforcement we don't need to do it." They didn't seem to mind it was 17-18 years ago.

Are they really and truly, pinky swear reporting all the "incidents described in the bankruptcy claims" to law enforcement? That would be great, but I don't buy it. Who's doing that, the LCs? The hotline people? How many total claims across the state of MI?

"The youth organization also said it requires all employees and volunteers to "promptly report any allegation or suspicion of abuse to law enforcement so that allegations can be investigated by experts," and asserted that incidents described in the claims filed in its bankruptcy case "have already been reported to local Michigan law enforcement." 

Edited by ThenNow
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Posted (edited)

If there are any Michigan Scouters here, I would be interested to hear your thoughts on the AG's announcement. I have now read various reports and comments she's made and there is some lack of precision. I'm now not 100% sure if she's targeting the organization or individual abusers, per the claims filed.

My friend just told me that BSA assured him the "incident details" of all claims from 1990 to date have been duly reported to law enforcement. That doesn't comport with the statement they made after the AG's announcement. At the least, the latter was artfully deceptive.

Edited by ThenNow
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5 hours ago, ThenNow said:

Since I'm not familiar with the other cases or the Michigan AG's motive and politics, I'm very curious how/why this is happening in this time and space. From my experience in other businesses and top level insurance brokerage through my wife, these are often political animals looking for a crusade to win. I'd love the backstory, if anyone has insight. I recognize this could be a 100% justice motivated and that would be great. I guess it doesn't really matter. I'm glad it's being done, yet curious.

I'm a Michigander.

Well, as far as why it's happening.  The biggest reason is the fact that in Michigan everyone is limited to 2 terms, so pretty much every AG is setting up their run for Governor and this is guaranteed headlines for Nessel, particularly since her much discussed prosecutions for the Flint water crisis aren't making as much noise as I'm sure she hoped.  But also, the state is primed for such investigations after the horrendous discoveries of years of inaction with the Nassar case. 

As far as why she was vague, well, I'd imagine she knew next to nothing about the BSA bankruptcy until someone pointed it out to her as a potential way to make bolster her reputation.  And I'm also guessing she doesn't actually know who she's targeting and this is basically tip fishing to see what accusations get turned up that can be acted upon. 

The one potential upside I'm hoping for is that she finds some of the accused abusers who maybe didn't have charges filed against them before and sends them to prison for a good long time.

At least, that's what I hope for until we work out a deal where prisoners can permanently surrender their citizenship and be exiled to a life as a subsistence farmer in Africa or some barely habitable island somewhere.

 

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6 minutes ago, elitts said:

I'm a Michigander.

Well, as far as why it's happening.  The biggest reason is the fact that in Michigan everyone is limited to 2 terms, so pretty much every AG is setting up their run for Governor and this is guaranteed headlines for Nessel, particularly since her much discussed prosecutions for the Flint water crisis aren't making as much noise as I'm sure she hoped.  But also, the state is primed for such investigations after the horrendous discoveries of years of inaction with the Nassar case. 

As far as why she was vague, well, I'd imagine she knew next to nothing about the BSA bankruptcy until someone pointed it out to her as a potential way to make bolster her reputation.  And I'm also guessing she doesn't actually know who she's targeting and this is basically tip fishing to see what accusations get turned up that can be acted upon. 

The one potential upside I'm hoping for is that she finds some of the accused abusers who maybe didn't have charges filed against them before and sends them to prison for a good long time.

At least, that's what I hope for until we work out a deal where prisoners can permanently surrender their citizenship and be exiled to a life as a subsistence farmer in Africa or some barely habitable island somewhere.

 

I agree with Michigander’s observations. Every AG in America is running for governor the day after they are elected. Political animals indeed. But that’s our system. 
personally, I don’t care her motives, I’m grateful she is. 
 

also agree she is probably clueless about the substance or scope of what she has publicly albeit vaguely committed her office. Again, that’s ok. We should urge the TCC to assist her. 
 

My rough calculations are between 3000-4000 of the claimants of the 84000 were abused in Michigan. 
 

im sure she has no idea…yet. 

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8 minutes ago, Muttsy said:

also agree she is probably clueless about the substance or scope of what she has publicly albeit vaguely committed her office. Again, that’s ok. We should urge the TCC to assist her. 
 

My rough calculations are between 3000-4000 of the claimants of the 84000 were abused in Michigan. 

You both confirmed my sense of it.

Next question: Will the Coalition, AIS and state attorneys encourage their clients to flood the hotline? Ditto the TCC? She may have committed herself to getting overwhelmed, not unlike the BSA and this court.

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This might be the start of more states AG's opening investigations especially those that might need to garner public positivity.  Could Gavin Newsom here in California who needs to distract attention from his recall ask the AG here to help him out?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, johnsch322 said:

This might be the start of more states AG's opening investigations especially those that might need to garner public positivity.  Could Gavin Newsom here in California who needs to distract attention from his recall ask the AG here to help him out?

AG Bonta plays himself as "the peoples' attorney" and has been a legitimate activist. It would be reasonable to think he might do something like this.

Edited by ThenNow
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2 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

AG Bonta plays himself as "the peoples attorney" and has been an legitimate activist. It would be reasonable to think he might do something like this.

Here's the question: to what end?

  1. Seeking criminal prosecution for abusers who are still alive? Ok.
  2. Seeking criminal prosecution of BSA and/or Local Councils? Does the phrase "bombing the rubble" or "bouncing the rubble" sound familiar? Past a certain point BSA and the LCs will simply be out of cash, camps, and assets. And since criminal fines are not discharged in bankruptcy, that means they are looking at either financial burdens for years in order to pay it off and/or voluntarily liquidation. If that's what abuse victims want, hey, I am not going to argue against it. But let's be clear that is where it would be heading.
  3. The PA/Grand Jury model: no indictments, no arrests of BSA officials (abusers are a different matter), no criminal prosecution of BSA, but a report that lays out in detail exactly how the abuse was allowed to happen, exactly what BSA did (in the case of PA it was Catholic dioceses), etc. The result was that one of the six dioceses involved went into its own bankruptcy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_jury_investigation_of_Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_in_Pennsylvania

 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Here's the question: to what end?

For my money, the 3 P's: Purely PR and Public Pressure. The press release on the MI investigation is itself powerful. Sure, I'd love all the substantive outcomes, but I've lived long enough not to hold my breath when something spurs a flutter of hope me bosom. Let's see what happens when 5, 10 or 15 states hop on the chuckwagon...

Edited by ThenNow
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6 hours ago, ThenNow said:

For my money, the 3 P's: Purely PR and Public Pressure. The press release on the MI investigation is itself powerful. Sure, I'd love all the substantive outcomes, but I've lived long enough not to hold my breath when something spurs a flutter of hope me bosom. Let's see what happens when 5, 10 or 15 states hop on the chuckwagon...

Still, this is not a good day for BSA.  Especially any council with claims from the last 5-10 years.  Those councils’ staff are mega screwed if they didn’t follow proper protocol to the letter.

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1 hour ago, 100thEagleScout said:

Still, this is not a good day for BSA.  Especially any council with claims from the last 5-10 years.  Those councils’ staff are mega screwed if they didn’t follow proper protocol to the letter.

Agreed. I was just saying it's a "win" regardless the eventual deliverables. 

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Better chances for positive publicity for higher office investigating the BSA rather than UofM: https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/10/us/bo-schembechler-son-robert-anderson-abuse/index.html

Similar sad story here, authority figures that knew about it, and at best turned a blind eye. Moving predators around after allegation. Like the BSA, in the Churches, or the Military, a consistent failure for those in power to protect the vulnerable. 

Edited by Sentinel947
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