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Chapter 11 announced - Part 3 - BSA's Toggle Plan


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38 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

Possibly. Maybe. Perhaps. Not so sure about that. “Most” and “would” are squishy, but perhaps “many” and “might” are more apt. Regardless, all who have good counsel and/or good sense, which is most (to use your word) will not do anything like that before seeing the real cards on the table. Fortunately for survivor claimants, the TCC, FCR and Coalition may have been galvanized by the ill-advised and very badly timed deal with Hartford, creating an impenetrable wall sealing off the path for the BSA’s Plan. Stay tuned. Same Bat time. Same Bat channel. (Old guys, I gotchu.)

Yeah, that belief is certainly in the realm of "squishy".  And I still don't know what to make out of the Hartford deal.  As someone else mentioned, it's hard to know if it's reasonable without knowing what the overall policy limit is for Hartford, which is hard to know without knowing what the actual liabilities are that would have been covered by the Hartford policies.  And I agree, most wouldn't take an 85k deal without a reasonable level of confidence regarding what's left over.  But I don't think the confidence they would need is in the idea that "we got every last dollar we could" but rather "we got the majority of what we could, and no one escaped unscathed".  Unfortunately there too, developing that confidence is going to require court decisions and I suspect not bankruptcy court decisions because it will involve specific rulings on what is and isn't restricted.

I mean, I realize there are people who think the restrictions on Summit and Philmont are "shams", but that's kind of how our system works when it comes to that stuff, so I don't know if that description really applies.

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Forums work well in many ways, but it is probably not the best way to discuss the difficult feelings of this bankruptcy while also discussing the impact to child sex abuse survivors.  However, there a

The mental fallout from my abuse was mostly dormant prior to the current lawsuit. It would still torment me in idle moments. Or at night sometimes when I lay in bed trying not to blame myself after so

I would like to not lock the thread but we seem to be in a rut that we need to get out of before any progress can be made. Here are some observations that might help. First, human dignity is the

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13 minutes ago, elitts said:

And I agree, most wouldn't take an 85k deal without a reasonable level of confidence regarding what's left over.  But I don't think the confidence they would need is in the idea that "we got every last dollar we could" but rather "we got the majority of what we could, and no one escaped unscathed".  Unfortunately there too, developing that confidence is going to require court decisions and I suspect not bankruptcy court decisions because it will involve specific rulings on what is and isn't restricted.

I understand. The BSA is compounding its dilemma by being less than forthcoming and through poor timing. I don't know if it's a negotiating tactic or what, but it looks ham-fisted. From an observer's standpoint, when you read that "more than half of the amount the BSA has offered consists of the estimated value of [their] art collection," it don't look so good. "Not the Renoir! Take the Rothko. I always hated that thing." From everyman's viewpoint, this is what really rich people do when they need to get some cash. They liquidate some of the peripheral niceties so they can protect the real assets. 

13 minutes ago, elitts said:

I mean, I realize there are people who think the restrictions on Summit and Philmont are "shams", but that's kind of how our system works when it comes to that stuff, so I don't know if that description really applies.

Early in my career I practiced real estate law. I worked with restricted properties, unwinding the restrictions so we could develop. As to Summit anyway, that is smoke and mirrors. I'm telling you, it definitely is.

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New to the forum, repeatedly molested by a BSA Camp employee.  

They can't fix the lifetime of damage I have endured.  But I'm going to take what I am offered and do my best to finally let it go.

My question is: Will all valid claimants receive the same share.  Or (as in my case) will those who were more severely abused receive settlement on some sort of scale or factor?  Obviously there is a difference between getting touched and raped, in level of severity.

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Welcome,  CyncialScouter  did  a really good job of explaining the process a few days ago.  His post is somewhere in the section recently.

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9 hours ago, Eagle1970 said:

Will all valid claimants receive the same share.

I am so, so sorry for what happened to you.

The answer to your question is no, this will not be "same share".

There is going to be a "points" system. I am trying to be sensitive here, but basically it will be

severity of act * number of occurrences = abuse score.

So, and I am trying to be sensitive here, if some (relatively) minor thing was done to a scout but was done a LOT

100 severity "points" * 10 occurrences = 1000 abuse score.

And if every 1 abuse score point = $1, then the victim would get $1000.

But if one VERY major thing was done to a scout twice

1000 severity points * 2 occurrences = 2000 abuse score

No one knows what the severity numbers or what the abuse score points will be (1 point may = $2, $1, $10, $.05, that is to be determined), but you can see BSAs plan for the severity points on pages 149-150 of this https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/886292_2594.pdf

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The impact of this abuse scandal and the resulting bankruptcy threatens to swamp not only the national BSA but also a number of local councils, chartered organizations and insurers alike. Not to ignore the multitude of shattered lives. This series of events is likely to literally become a textbook case that will be studied for decades. Coupled with the impact of the pandemic and the devastating effect on the image of the organization, from my perspective, the path to survival for the BSA continues  to narrow and become increasingly steep. My fear is that not only may the national organization collapse but who else will the ensuring reaction take with it? This feels like being a witness to the disaster of a slow motion train wreck or watching the aftermath of the Titanic's ill-fated encounter with an iceberg in the North Atlantic.

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1 hour ago, CynicalScouter said:

No one knows what the severity numbers or what the abuse score points will be (1 point may = $2, $1, $10, $.05, that is to be determined), but you can see BSAs plan for the severity points on pages 149-150 of this https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/886292_2594.pdf

Just a footnote. It’s not out of the realm of possibility that this claims valuation matrix is not the one used, given the effort of the TCC, FCR and Coalition to lift the exclusivity and file a separate Plan. In that event, it would still have these tiers and multipliers, but may look more like the one in the New Mexico Catholic Church Chapter 11. It is built on the same concept, but quite different. 

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13 hours ago, Eagle1970 said:

New to the forum, repeatedly molested by a BSA Camp employee.  

Welcome. As you've read, you're not alone here. It was brave to speak up. Thank you for doing so.

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A corporation or organization is responsible for the acts of its members.  Most of any settlement is going to come from insurers, that have not written the type of policy that will be utilized in many, many years.  The insurance contracts were purchased for a reason, and they were agreed upon between the Scouts and Insurers.  They collect huge premiums all day long and sometimes they get to pay out.  I don't agree that their payouts are hurting current members.  When the contracts were purchased, many in the 70's, they were factored in as part of the cost of employment and operations.  I will not feel sad for Hartford, Century or Chubb for God's sake.

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2 hours ago, ThenNow said:

given the effort of the TCC, FCR and Coalition to lift the exclusivity and file a separate Plan

Right, I should make doubly clear: everything I just described is BSA's plan.

The actual abuse scores, severity, etc. is TBD and has to be approved of by a) 67% of the abuse victims and b) the judge.

But the broader point remains: this will not be a situation where all abuse victims receive the exact same compensation ("same share").

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