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Chapter 11 announced - Part 3 - BSA's Toggle Plan


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51 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

It looks like BSA may exit bankruptcy with no assets (including no endowment) other than 4 HA Bases and $500M in debt.  When they increase annual fees to $150 each scout (Scouts Canada numbers), realize that $75/scout is likely paying the interest on the $500M in loans.

So, it looks like they will make it out alive, but limping. Are you guys in any way surprised and/or heartened? Some were 99.99% certain total annihilation was drawing nigh. 

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1 hour ago, yknot said:

Activities in 4H can be similar but the program dynamics are completely different as I outlined above.

Other than summer camp, do they do unit type camping frequently through the year? My wife’s 4H was more very focused crafts - sewing, cooking, ceramics, flower, and arranging. Competition in those areas at local and state. Meetings only at adult homes other than competition at county buildings. 

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4H offers pretty much everything depending on where you are so if you are in a camping club or are working on a high adventure type project, yes they do unit like things. However, there is generally a lot more parental involvement and it's often more of a group setting. It's also not as much tent based. When I was a kid we camped a lot but it was in everything from group cabins at summer camp to empty barns to pop up campers and the backs of pick up trucks. It was usually a bunch of kids stuck together and a leader somewhere. I was not in a camping club but we often camped to be near our projects either at a fairgrounds -- think jamboree type set up  -- or nearby or for fun. 

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3 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

Save the HAs at all cost, literally ALL costs? I guess that makes sense if they think with the new HA family camping and resort options the HAs will be year round money makers (BSA now in the resort business). But wow, that is a gamble.

Sometimes it's not about the money.   It's about the key unique identity provided by the HA bases.

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2 hours ago, yknot said:

I think until scouting confronts that and figures out ways to address it better instead of trying to deflect it as a societal problem that can't be helped, the future of scouting, and the kids in it, isn't safe. Others have been focused on the money and numbers throughout the bankruptcy process here but this is the aspect that has riveted me. 

I can accept your view.  I think scouting is more advanced than many programs especially as the leaders are now so focused on YPT.  But I accept your view.  ... I think the real risk in scouting is the stupidity at times.   Do we really need a G2SS to prevent the use of canons at camp?  Well, yes we do because .....

My concern is mainly from what I've seen through my life.    Not seven layers of separation, but two.  My city.  My school.  My kid's school.  My kid's classmates.  Local teachers.  Local roller rink.  Local music teacher(S).  When I was a kid, it was several hockey players in my high school class suspended for what today is a felony. 

I truly believe more damage will be done by treating it as BSA specific.  Society needs to recognize abuse happens, even where you least expect it.  It needs to be recognized and reported.  

I remember what I considered a shocking YPT violation in the last ten years by a hockey team leaders.  Traveling game.  Hotel room.  All the dads went out for an evening at the bar.  One guy stayed back with the players.  Was it always the same guy staying back?  Staying late?  Socializing with players on his own?  ... IMHO, it should have been clear two or more should have stayed back.  ... Ahhh ... but it's hockey.  Abuse never happens there. (sarcasm) ... My wife has similar stories.  The youth pastor who somehow quickly married a young lady that was one of the youth in the church.  

 

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8 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

Ahhh ... but it's hockey.  Abuse never happens there. (sarcasm) ... My wife has similar stories.  The youth pastor who somehow quickly married a young lady that was one of the youth in the church.

Maybe we all have such stories? The volley ball head coach who was brought up on charges, but never convicted. Banned from the sport, though. He did, out of the kindness of his heart, adopt the baby of a 17 year teammate as his own child. Just a kind heart, I guess?

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5 hours ago, ThenNow said:

So, it looks like they will make it out alive, but limping. Are you guys in any way surprised and/or heartened? Some were 99.99% certain total annihilation was drawing nigh. 

I’m heartened. I would be ok selling Sea Base and Northern Tier. Both could be done pretty well without ownership. Since I loved Jamborees in the past, I’m pretty happy that the Summit has survived. I think Philmont was good to keep too, but I am skeptical of the re-enactment practices at Philmont. 
 

So, maybe national turns into a “mail order” badge, uniform, and book supplier for a generation. If it wouldn’t cost so much, I would say they should move national to the Summit or Philmont and sell the national offices. 
 

The huge debt will be hard. 

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8 hours ago, ThenNow said:

I’m also very curious to learn the TCC’s view, since they have not yet signed on. At these numbers, if this is global, we’ve gone from $6100 to about $9000. WooHoo. Phhhtttt. I believe in our TCC and pray for a better outcome than this.

We'll all have to be careful about the "headlines" when they appear after some sort of deal has been struck.  This has a LOT of nuances but the media will take some amount, divide it by 82-85,000 victims and the sum will become the headline "BSA settles with Victims, Each to receive X."  It's so much more complex.  The funding that goes into any trust will come from not only the BSA/LCs but also COs and INSURERS.  The insurers don't seem interested in a global settlement TODAY and won't roll over easily or quickly until they must.  A LOT of the TCC's work right now must be wrapped up in the construction of all the processes that will continue after the BSA emerges.  Then, it becomes a balancing act of gaining funds in a timely manner and avoiding an unnecessary litigation circus.  We should actually be heartened that the TCC isn't feeding into any media feeding frenzy to make its points.  This is billions of dollars at play and playing cards VERY close to the vest is a lot better than mistakenly allowing someone a peek because you said too much.  That said, it IS agonizing for all victims and hopes are so easily dashed.  Anyone who has lived in a State where every year legislation to change Statutes of Limitations never made it out of committee knows the pain when hopes are dashed.  Victims, whether they consider themselves survivors or on the road to survivorship are some of the strongest people on the planet.  If the insurers believe this is a group that will roll over easily then it will be a Trust's duty after it takes the baton from the TCC and Coalition to make it clear that the insurers may be grossly underestimating the fight and resolve of this group.   Remember,   "Justice delayed is justice denied."  If only this was about justice.    Alas, it isn't, it's bankruptcy so it's business.  The BSA made that choice for all victims when it filed.

 

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