Chapter 11 announced - Part 3 - BSA's Toggle Plan

[CynicalScouter 1434]

Very, very interesting item that was in another thread but I think belongs here (as well).

https://www.scouter.com/topic/32604-respondeat-superior/?do=findComment&comment=525220

39 minutes ago, MYCVAStory said:

At 3:00PM EST yesterday all LCs had the opportunity to sit in on a two-hour presentation by the TCC professionals and its Financial consultants BRG discussing in great detail its analysis of all Council finances.  The TCC is providing Councils with their individual analyses.

Of note, this was NOT a part of the mediation schedule subject to confidentiality so this can be shared.  And, read into this what you want but the TCC stated that it asked that the Q&A feature be turned on by the BSA so the TCC could take questions and interact with the LCs .  The BSA was hosting the meeting and it refused. 

[MYCVAStory 687]

4 minutes ago, acema606 said:

Is there a recording or transcript of the presentation or a log of who participated?  I would be interested to determine what my local Council's value is listed as  and if they participated.   Our Council has not provided any information beyond the company line quite some time ago that everyone else got... Counicls are separate, money stays local, etc....  

There is no recording.  Your question should go to your Council Exec with the request that he share the TCC's analysis of your Council.

[acema606 25]

1 minute ago, MYCVAStory said:

There is no recording.  Your question should go to your Council Exec with the request that he share the TCC's analysis of your Council.

Thank you.  I will draft that email today.  I expect it to be met with silence like my previous inquiries.  

[ThenNow 1373]

8 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

the TCC stated that it asked that the Q&A feature be turned on by the BSA so the TCC could take questions and interact with the LCs .  The BSA was hosting the meeting and it refused. 

I get all there is to hear and know about lawyerly caution, but doesn't this speak loudly to anyone? 

[CynicalScouter 1434]

11 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Very, very interesting item that was in another thread but I think belongs here (as well).

https://www.scouter.com/topic/32604-respondeat-superior/?do=findComment&comment=525220

My questions, in no particular order

1) Which councils sat in and who from the council was there? There is a giant bit of difference between the professional Scout Exec sitting in and, say, the volunteer Council President or General Counsel, for example.

2) While I believe they went through "in great detail" the AGGREGATED council finances, I wonder if/when TCC was willing to share the SPECIFIC council finances of 200+ councils. There's no way that was done in 2 hours. Did TCC have documents they would be willing to share? Did share? Nothing would please me more than to see THAT number and compare/contrast vs. what councils have in their IRS 990s, for example. NOT to say that the LCs are lying, but for example LCs might be valuing properties based on depreciated value (for tax purposes, entirely reasonable and legal) whereas TCC is valuing properties based on current resale value.

3) Why did BSA not want the TCC to directly communicate with the LCs?

4) Why did BSA not want the LCs to directly communicate with the TCC?

Note: these are two SEPARATE questions with possibly to SEPARATE answers. I suspect I know the answer to one (BSA does not want TCC gaining direct access to LCs) and suspect the other (BSA does not want LCs reaching out to TCC to get real, direct answers without the BSA legal team's interpretations.)

5) What role, formal or informal, did the Ad Hoc Committee of Local Councils play?

That's just my opening bid. Of course, BSA will never, ever tell us (even though they can) and TCC will not for various legal ethical reasons (e.g. possible breach of fiduciary duty to start spouting off to non-parties whose interests they don't represent)

Edited May 5, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[CynicalScouter 1434]

2 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

I get all there is to hear and know about lawyerly caution, but doesn't this speak loudly to anyone? 

Right. Why is BSA so deathly afraid of letting the LCs find out direct from TCC what TCC wants, what TCC is looking for, etc?

BSA is running scared now.

[Eagle1993 2160]

10 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Very, very interesting item that was in another thread but I think belongs here (as well).

https://www.scouter.com/topic/32604-respondeat-superior/?do=findComment&comment=525220

FWIW, we just got an invite for a council townhall about a number of topics including bankruptcy.  May 19 date set, prequestions are allowed.

[CynicalScouter 1434]

3 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

FWIW, we just got an invite for a council townhall about a number of topics including bankruptcy.  May 19 date set, prequestions are allowed.

My Council, who has honestly been I believe as open as they can be, has done three similar townhalls.

When it comes to the bankruptcy, they made clear early on that there was a behind-the-scenes formula from BSA and/or the Ad Hoc Committee of Local Councils that was going to indicate what each LC had to pay into the Settlement. Of course, that was back when BSA was thinking it was going to be asking LCs for $300 million or $400 million in contributions. I suspect that formula has been nuked at this point.

Someone asked how many claims had been filed against the council. Back in January we were told "can't give an exact number, but about average". Of course the list came out and...my Key-3 were telling the truth it was about the average for a council of our size.

That said, other than "there's a formula and there's lots of lawyers talking a lot" the Key-3 told us they could not say anything more because a) they were told this was part of legal proceedings/negotiations and b) there really wasn't that much more they had.

[CynicalScouter 1434]

28 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

FWIW, we just got an invite for a council townhall about a number of topics including bankruptcy.  May 19 date set, prequestions are allowed.

What I plan to ask my Key-3, if/when we have the next town hall

1. Based on the BSA/Ad Hoc Committee formula, what is the expected amount that this council would have to pay in order to get a release/settlement?
2. What is the TCC's estimated value of council assets and, related, what is TCC's estimate for how much it expects this council to produce to get a release/settlement?
3. What properties, if any, are expected to be sold in order to meet the obligations for scenario #1 or #2, above?

Edited May 5, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[DavidLeeLambert 105]

TCC has posted another document to their website for survivors.

BSA Survivor Claims Subject to Roster Search

Quote

The BSA and the Local Councils are searching rosters of the Local Councils that are listed in a Survivor’s proof of claim for that Survivor’s name. If a Survivor listed a Local Council (or Councils) in Part4 (I) of the proof-of-claim form, that form is being sent to the Local Council(s) to determine whether the Survivor is listed on any of its rosters.

Click the link [...] for a list of claim numbers that the BSA has sent to the Local Councils. If your claim number is listed, the BSA and Local Councils are searching their rosters for the Survivor's name. The BSA and Local Councils have until May 19, 2021, to complete the roster searches.

If your claim number is not on the chart linked below, the BSA and Local Councils are NOT searching a roster for that particular Survivor. If you want the BSA and the applicable Local Council to search their rosters for a particular Survivor, you must amend your proof of claim to identify a Local Council in Part 4(I) of the form. Once the claim is amended, you must bring the amendment to the attention of the Official Tort Claimants’ Committee by sending an email to: BSASurvivors@pszjlaw.com. In that email, please identify the amended claim number(s) of each amended claim so that information can be communicated to BSA and the Local Councils. The BSA and Local Councils will have up to 60 days to complete the search and production after notice of the amended claim has been provided to them.

At first glance it doesn't seem there's much to learn beyond the chart of claim numbers by council that was shared back in March... although this is line-by-line by claim number, so it might be possible to discern some chronological pattern (or lack thereof). And it might be possible to cross-reference the list with court documents to discover the council, where a claim number was mentioned but the council was not mentioned or was mentioned and redacted.

But there are 54,298 claims matched to council in this list, which means there are still at least about 30,900 claims outstanding where the claimant did not specify a council and has not amended the claim to specify a council.

[CynicalScouter 1434]

9 minutes ago, DavidLeeLambert said:

But there are 54,298 claims matched to council in this list, which means there are still at least about 30,900 claims outstanding where the claimant did not specify a council and has not amended the claim to specify a council.

TCC had mentioned in a Zoom that their long term vision is a clickable map showing

1. Number of claims in a council (and if your particular claim is in that council).
2. Total council assets
3. Total council contributions to the settlement

They are really, really putting the screws to the LCs at this point. $300 million is not going to cut it.

[Eagle1970 210]

In the same manner in which I disavowed my loyalty to BSA following the abuse I was subjected to, I opted to leave the Catholic Church and not raise my children within the parish or send them to the Marianist high school I attended.  How hypocritical (and dangerous) would it have been for me, a firsthand victim, to subject my kids to the possibility of the same treatment I received in Scouts or the abuse that was becoming evident within the Church and Marianist organizations?  My life, marriage and family relationships were forever scarred from having to make those decisions, as the remainder of my large family remained with the Church, Marianists and Scouts (to the exclusion of myself, former wife and my kids).  

I have struggled over the years with leaving the Church.  But I am convinced that if there is a just and caring God, I won't be judged for having done so.  Those who have chosen to continue with the BSA, in light of all the abuse, as well as those who did the same for the organized Catholic Church and Marianist-run schools do so with the full knowledge that caring for the abused comes along with the package.  

[tnmule20 68]

1 hour ago, ThenNow said:

Hm. "You cannot change what happened in the past." True. But then what?? No restitution, damages, repayment for losses caused are ever necessary, just, moral or due. Nothing can be "changed" so move on? I keep hearing "money is not going to fix what happened to me." Agreed. Still, let's give it a whirl, shall we? I'm not asking the BSA or anyone else to "fix" me. Only God can do that and He's working on it. I want some balancing of the real world, life impact and damage scales.

The cold, hard reality is that there are no guarantees in life.

No guarantee of that next meal.

No guarantee of a warm bed at night.

No guarantee that you won’t be sexually abused as a child.

Unfortunately these 80,000 plus people are the unlucky ones along with countless others.

This has been their journey, their plight in life.

At some point you must accept your circumstances (not to say that you haven’t), and with the grace of God, move forward.  Not looking back for man’s restitution.  That will destroy you.  Your restitution comes through Jesus Christ the Redeemer.  Your justice will come in His time and not yours.  If man’s restitution is meant to happen then it will.

If you are a believer then you know that every knee will bend and every head shall bow one day.  The day we are all before God for judgement.  NONE of us will escape this.

There is but one unforgivable sin but the Bible also tells you, "And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea." Mark 9:42, KJV

There will be judgement for the abusers, just maybe not in man’s court.

I don’t pretend to understand any of your pain but I do know that there is someone that can help.  It seems you already know Him.  I’m glad.

[CynicalScouter 1434]

7 minutes ago, tnmule20 said:

Not looking back for man’s restitution. 

I see. So, we should just shut down the entire civil justice system. No one should seek a civil remedy for a wrong that has been done to them because, in the end, God will take care of it?

What?

Edited May 5, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[TAHAWK 1420]

What always interested me about the wisdom of Summit is the potential liability  for the cost of remediation of the stripmining of much of the property.  

Our local Council has dismissed the litigation and banckruptcy as nonevents on the grounds that the LC is a "separate entity."  Per their cheery emailed videos, nothing will change:

"The Lake Erie Council has not filed for bankruptcy. Our Council is legally separate, distinct and financially independent from the national organization. 

Scouting programs will continue. This means that unit meetings and activities, service area and council events, other Scouting adventures and countless service projects will take place as usual. In short, we expect no changes to the local Scouting experience in Northeast Ohio. 

Scouting is safer now than ever before. Over many years, we’ve developed some of the strongest expert-informed youth protection policies found in any youth-serving organization. I can also assure you that our volunteers and employees take youth protection extremely seriously and do their part to help keep kids safe.

Restricted donations – past, present or future – can only be used for their designated purpose. In addition, annual donations made to our Council will continue to fund necessary day-to-day expenses that are critical to local Scouting programs. "