So, what are the LC's and COs being sued for?

[vol_scouter 365]

2 hours ago, yknot said:

We've kind of been over this a couple times before but  you can't compare sports to scouts. Rank and file sports kids are not going on campouts once a month with unrelated adults in remote locations and staying overnight. Most sports practices and games are conducted at facilities in public view, which parents attend. Other officials are often there. Most school and municipal facilities generally have security cameras. Most schools now have security cameras everywhere except bathrooms and locker rooms. I don't know of any travel teams other than college where parents don't routinely travel with their player and generally stay in the same hotel rooms together. It is not comparable. Scouting has to have more policies because of what it is and does with kids. Frankly, I've been involved in scouts and sports for years and there isn't really much difference. Yes, I've yet to see a coach run out of a gym because he suddenly realized he was the only adult in the room with a bunch of kids the way I have seen an ASM run out of a troop meeting. However, in the coach case generally the gym doors are open, there's a custodian around somewhere, an administrator is sticking their head in the door... it's different. 

 

The statistics from Shakeshaft's paper included coaches who were major offenders.

No level of child abuse is acceptable, but what is the standard that society is setting?  It seems for the schools that it is 9.6% because there has not been a hue and cry since this was reported in 2004.  No outcry, no congressional hearings, some lawsuits, little media attention.  Wonder why?  

Once again, this is not an apology for the BSA but rather a question about the attention paid to the BSA when a worse as in higher incidence and far higher prevalence (from ,  https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2019/school-enrollment.html, Census Bureau Reports Nearly 77 Million Students Enrolled in U.S. Schools, "DEC. 3, 2019 — The number of people enrolled in school in the United States reached 76.8 million in 2018 according to the U.S. Census Bureau.") which means if the same rates apply, over 7 million school children have been abused.

One more time for CynicalScouter, this is not an apology for the BSA but trying to say where does this fit into organizations that have abuse problems.  

[Owls_are_cool 111]

Another thought I have...since we know that background checks do not screen out 100% of the pedophiles and the BSA knows this fact also, is the BSA still liable for abuse that leaked in from an imperfect background check system? And if the BSA is still liable, then how is it possible to for the organization to eliminate 100% of the abuse, short of ending scouting?

[vol_scouter 365]

10 minutes ago, Owls_are_cool said:

Another thought I have...since we know that background checks do not screen out 100% of the pedophiles and the BSA knows this fact also, is the BSA still liable for abuse that leaked in from an imperfect background check system? And if the BSA is still liable, then how is it possible to for the organization to eliminate 100% of the abuse, short of ending scouting?

Most pedophiles and ephebophiles have no prior record as they often get long prison sentences and they are screened out.

You defined the problem.  Although as another poster said, youth on youth is now the larger problem as youth protection has curbed much of the adult on youth problems.

[yknot 1338]

2 hours ago, vol_scouter said:

The statistics from Shakeshaft's paper included coaches who were major offenders.

No level of child abuse is acceptable, but what is the standard that society is setting?  It seems for the schools that it is 9.6% because there has not been a hue and cry since this was reported in 2004.  No outcry, no congressional hearings, some lawsuits, little media attention.  Wonder why?  

Once again, this is not an apology for the BSA but rather a question about the attention paid to the BSA when a worse as in higher incidence and far higher prevalence (from ,  https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2019/school-enrollment.html, Census Bureau Reports Nearly 77 Million Students Enrolled in U.S. Schools, "DEC. 3, 2019 — The number of people enrolled in school in the United States reached 76.8 million in 2018 according to the U.S. Census Bureau.") which means if the same rates apply, over 7 million school children have been abused.

One more time for CynicalScouter, this is not an apology for the BSA but trying to say where does this fit into organizations that have abuse problems.  

I didn't comment on that study that you cited because the percentages completely defy other research but more importantly, common sense. Sexual abuse of elementary school students in a school setting is not as common as among older students (although that changes OUTSIDE the school environment). They are too well supervised. That means a much higher rate of abuse occurs among middle school and high school age students. There are high rates of abuse among high school AGE students, but not in a school setting. To victimize say 15% of high school students, means that about 35% of girls in any given school would be affected. Teachers would have to be tackling them in the hallways to produce that. 

Which brings me to another point. In scouting, we are myopically focused on boys. In child sexual abuse, boys are actually abused at significantly lower rates than girls. So you are not comparing apples to apples when you throw out rates of child abuse as comparisons if you don't separate it by gender.

There have been studies and reports that have shown that abuse rates among boys may be higher than thought because of the male culture to just get over it, but then that would also apply in scouting.  The 84,000 claims reported in scouting is likely a minimal number. Even with weeding out possibly false claims, there are many victims who have died or are not yet ready to talk about their abuse. 

There is a lot to youth protection in the scouting setting that BSA has really never looked at or examined. There are now thousands of claims, and hundreds of letters, that will be full of useful facts that can be analyzed and perhaps used to improve it. 

 

 

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by yknot

[CynicalScouter 1434]

BSA is filing disclosure statement and reorganization plan 3.0 on Sunday evening.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Eagle1993
Removed reference to weekend break.

[johnsch322 524]

I am a survivor with a lawyer.  If I nor any other survivor in this bankruptcy had no lawyer we would have no restitution.  The TCC lawyers have a plan for the continuation of BSA that gives fair compensation to survivors.  The people who are fighting this are lawyers for the BSA and for the insurance companies.  

 

[Eagle1993 2160]

@johnsch322 Welcome to Scouter.com.  

[qwazse 4342]

On 5/15/2021 at 12:12 PM, johnsch322 said:

I am a survivor with a lawyer.  If I nor any other survivor in this bankruptcy had no lawyer we would have no restitution.  The TCC lawyers have a plan for the continuation of BSA that gives fair compensation to survivors.  The people who are fighting this are lawyers for the BSA and for the insurance companies. 

@johnsch322, welcome to the forums.

Yes BSA is fighting. That’s generally what happens when someone demands more money than someone else is willing to give.

It’s hard giving an opponent any benefit of the doubt. But, BSA May see the plan as forcing it to “continue” by making costs prohibitive to our most vulnerable youth, making safe camps too remote for them to attend, leading to upright volunteers unwilling to risk contributing to our nation’s youth programs. It may fear that as  result, more youth will be isolated in high risk environments where the risk of abuse is far higher than 1%.

From one perspective they BSA is acting like modern land barons. From another perspective TCC seems reckless. The demonization cuts both ways.