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Let's try and get this back on topic: the new territories plan and tangentially how to staff it. It's not about tenting regs and yp. I believe there are other threads on that topic. I looked at t

BSA enrollment is dropping like a rock.  I guess BSA has gotten an answer.  Not the one it wanted, but an answer all the same.

And yet when offered an opportunity to engage within the Service Territory structure (national) and be part of the solution moving forward look at the responses that followed.

1 hour ago, KublaiKen said:

So would the territories replace regions/areas (realizing this is just a proposal)?

Yes.  Regions and areas would be replaced.  

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2 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

Not sure if this has been sent out previously.  Looks like just a proposal.

Yes, last year. And it is now past proposal. It's a go.

 

Edited by CynicalScouter
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1 hour ago, RichardB said:

Currently recruiting for Safe Scouting Leads for the 16 NST's.     If you think that's you, message me.    

I would, if I could even once get a straight answer out of ANYONE at National regarding YPT questions I've posed in the past only to be ignored (as in emails never followed up on).

I'll start taking Safe Scouting seriously when BSA does and starts to answer unit questions.

FOR EXAMPLE and the example I never, ever, EVER got an answer on.

Why is it a YOUTH PROTECTION violation for a parent to tent with their scout (outside of Cub Scouts).

I know the PROGRAM answer

Quote

Q. Why do youth tent separately from parents outside of Cub Scouting?

A. Scouts BSA, Sea Scouts, and Venturing are youth led programs.  The Cub Scout program is family-oriented.

I still have never, ever, EVER gotten the YOUTH PROTECTION answer. How is my tenting with my son a YOUTH PROTECTION problem?

Edited by CynicalScouter
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@CynicalScouter You do have an answer that addresses both safety and program integrity.     Not the one you wanted but an answer all the same.   

If you have other questions your appropriate point of contact is your local council youth protection champion or council staff / Scout Executive to address your particular concerns.     

 

 

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7 minutes ago, RichardB said:

You do have an answer that addresses both safety and program integrity

No, that answer has precisely 0% to do with safety it simple says Scouts, BSA is a "youth led program."

Program.

Let me say it again.

PROGRAM.

How is my tenting with my son a safety issue? A protection issue?

And my S.E. told me "Ask national". And when I emailed I was given the above. When I asked the follow up, the email was ignored/I received NO response. Not a boilerplate response. Not the response you just gave (which is to blow me off and not answer the question). Simply IGNORED.

So, as I said, I'll start to believe BSA is serious about Safe Scouting when it starts to answer some questions.

 

 

Edited by CynicalScouter
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55 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

So, as I said, I'll start to believe BSA is serious about Safe Scouting when it starts to answer some questions.

Well, that's discouraging.  But not unheard of or unexpected.   I have personal stories in that vein too.   I had to politely knock on (long distance telephone) doors, send letters (real paper !), and emails (A Scout is Courteous).  I finally got a human being to talk to, and got some answers, which explained my personal situation (part of which was they hoped I would just go away if they ignored me. Really).  

So, if it is important to you (and it sounds like it is), document, save records,  search out phone numbers (this was the surprise, both to me and to them. How did you get this number?) . and be politely persistent.  Remind them, politely, of the Scout Promise and Law, the otherwise excellent record you have, and allow them to do "the right thing."

It eventually worked for me, and future events turned out different and better. 

 

 

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On 3/18/2021 at 10:04 AM, CynicalScouter said:

No, that answer has precisely 0% to do with safety it simple says Scouts, BSA is a "youth led program."

Program.

Let me say it again.

PROGRAM.

How is my tenting with my son a safety issue? A protection issue?

And my S.E. told me "Ask national". And when I emailed I was given the above. When I asked the follow up, the email was ignored/I received NO response. Not a boilerplate response. Not the response you just gave (which is to blow me off and not answer the question). Simply IGNORED.

So, as I said, I'll start to believe BSA is serious about Safe Scouting when it starts to answer some questions.

 

 

@CynicalScouter, I have had many questions, also.  One particular question was regarding 72 hour rule and MBCs (whether they were "registered leaders" or not, and what was the difference if our CO approved them to camp with us.)  I asked our DE (when we had one), who did not have the answer.  Asked a more senior DE, and the FD, who had different answers (one of them was "blow it off" ;) ).  Asked the SE, who said ask National.  Asked DE friends and another SE in separate council...another different answer!  

When I asked National, the YP person said right out, that I was trying to circumvent National's membership policies, and that I should just ask my SE, and that they questioned the leadership of our council.  He also included the SE in the email.  I thought it was really nasty, and I called him out on it.  Later, our SE used some very unScoutlike language to describe the National person.  LOL

In this particular case, it seemed to be about the money... not YP or Program

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On 3/18/2021 at 8:58 AM, RichardB said:

 Not the one you wanted but an answer all the same.   

BSA enrollment is dropping like a rock.  I guess BSA has gotten an answer.  Not the one it wanted, but an answer all the same.

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13 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

In this particular case, it seemed to be about the money... not YP or Program

I have often thought the way to light a fire under National would be to get a group of adult Scouters to file a brief in the bankruptcy court indicating that BSA does NOT take YPT seriously, as indicated by the fact that when we as registered adult leaders ask questions we are given a) multiple answers or b) blown off.

Then provide email chains showing/demonstrating this.

Of course, any scouter who did that would a) be purged and b) if they had kids in program would see any chance they had a Eagle voided on the spot.

Edited by CynicalScouter
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2 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

I have often thought the way to light a fire under National would be to get a group of adult Scouters to file a brief in the bankruptcy court indicating that BSA does NOT take YPT seriously, as indicate by the fact that when we as registered adult leaders ask questions we are given a) multiple answers or b) blown off.

Of course, any scouter who did that would a) be purged and b) if they had kids in program would see any chance they had a Eagle voided on the spot.

I think a pervasive malady at National (and many Councils) is simply not understanding who their primary customers are:  Adult Volunteers! Without them, you don't have youth membership, YP, program, or anything else...

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13 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

I think a pervasive malady at National (and many Councils) is simply not understanding who their primary customers are:  Adult Volunteers! Without them, you don't have youth membership, YP, program, or anything else...

I guarantee what if we filed such a brief a LOT of YP questions would be sorted/resolved right quick because at that point it would be fodder for the abuse claimants to show that BSA doesn't take YP seriously.

Of course, as I said, it means the end to not only any plans the scouter has for a future in BSA but their children as well.

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32 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

I think a pervasive malady at National (and many Councils) is simply not understanding who their primary customers are:  Adult Volunteers! Without them, you don't have youth membership, YP, program, or anything else...

And yet when offered an opportunity to engage within the Service Territory structure (national) and be part of the solution moving forward look at the responses that followed.

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