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Really? You're welcome to weed in my backyard any time. I have a great crop of bind weed and some nice thistle. Oh, and lots of mint.

My opinion… councils don’t care.  Mine seems more than happy to be considering dumping their remaining two camps.  They said… go to State Parks.  Camps are seen as a liability to some councils.  Counc

Part of the problem, too, is that we are trying to create these country-club type experiences for people.  Swimming pools, air conditioning, hot showers and flush toilets, climbing towers, ATV program

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2 hours ago, David CO said:

Might be the last summer for BSA.

We told the parents in our troop to be optimistic, but that there was a pretty good chance BSA wouldn't be around into the fall. We are getting our Life-to-Eagles done ASAP in expectation of that.

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3 hours ago, 1980Scouter said:

So how many people think this will be the last summer for most BSA summer camps? I feel the lawsuits will reach LC's by 2022 and will be the end for most camps.

I do not see an agreement ever passing to protect LC's from liability.

1) The lawsuits have already reached the LCs. At last count there are 870 already filed and pending and with hundreds more expected by this summer due, in part, to statute of limitations windows closing.

2) I can see how SOME LCs can. For example, an LC in a state where the statute of limitations has not been expanded to allow sexual abuse victims to sue could probably work out a deal where they pay something NOW to ensure that, if the state legislature ever does open up the look-back window, the LC is not liable because they have already settled.

But in order to do that, the LCs need to be up front NOW with what assets they have NOW and reach the deal NOW. Not wait and hope.

Edited by CynicalScouter
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1 hour ago, Eagle1993 said:

Scouting University

How was Scouting University used? They produced the online trainings there? I have also heard they did professional training there. What were the other uses? How long did it exist? Can someone explain what is being lost?

Edited by mrjohns2
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4 minutes ago, Eagle91 said:

Greater Hudson Valley Council.  Three (out of four) council properties listed for sale. 

Let me put Greater Hudson Valley in perspective and why this is a big, big deal.

All items from here https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/2e699803-3fcf-4cc3-9c54-2f36667e9b4a_5371.pdf

Greater Hudson Valley (#388) is the merger of Hudson Valley and Westchester-Putnam Councils effective 1/1/2021. The latest data (from BSA, not TCC which I am sure disagrees with this assessment) was that Hudson Valley the entity has 11,731,515 in unrestricted assets and 9,593,832 in restricted. That number does NOT include Westchester-Putnam which had not completed their merger yet, so expect that number to rise.

Hudson Valley had at least 121 claims of which 115 were NOT timebarred. Westchester-Putnam had at least 201 claims of which 196 were NOT timebarred (see page 354). Thus the combined Greater Hudson had somewhere around 311 non-time barred claims.

Hudson Valley Claimed

Council Center Office/Store $620,000 and restricted status U ("U:  Unrestricted - No restriction on the property was asserted or confirmed")

Camp Nooteeming $3,805,000 and restricted status L ("L:  Limitations - Documents support existence of use limitations or sale limitations such as conservation easements which may impact the value of the property")

Camp Bullowa $3,440,000 and restricted status L

Westchester-Putnam Claimed

Curtis S. Read Scout Reservation Camp $3,255,000 and restricted status U

Service Center Office/Store $1,000,000 and restricted status TBD

Agatha Durland Scout Reservation Camp $11,770,000 and restricted status L

Sum Totals

In addition to whatever cash is being put in, Greater Hudson is offering 3 camps worth $19,015,000 (again, Fair Market value per BSA) to settle 311 non-time barred claims = $61,141. Adding in the time-barred claims doesn't change the math much (down to around $59,000).

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1 hour ago, CynicalScouter said:

Sum Totals   In addition to whatever cash is being put in, Greater Hudson is offering 3 camps worth $19,015,000 (again, Fair Market value per BSA) to settle 311 non-time barred claims = $61,141. Adding in the time-barred claims doesn't change the math much (down to around $59,000).

Subtract realtor fees and related fees.  Subtract settlement fees to lawyers.  Subtract other legal and related fees.  $61,141 will become around $43000 or so. 

Does this go to the trust of all abuse victims?  84,000?   Then, probably more like $170 per claim.  Memory making camps that will become the equivalent to the coupon value of a really nice hotel room for one night.  

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1 hour ago, fred8033 said:

Does this go to the trust of all abuse victims?  84,000? 

The way I read the plan, no, it will NOT go to all 84,000. It will go to those with a claim against that particular council, thus 311 (or so) in Greater Hudson Valley will split that $19 million, minus the things you mentioned.

This is not a situation where a Council in Texas is going to sell its camp to pay for claims against a North Carolina Council, for example. The LC is responsible for paying ONLY for claims in its territory OR its predecessor councils (where mergers occurred).

Edited by CynicalScouter
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25 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

The way I read the plan, no, it will NOT go to all 84,000. It will go to those with a claim against that particular council, thus 311 (or so) in Greater Hudson Valley will split that $19 million, minus the things you mentioned.

This is not a situation where a Council in Texas is going to sell its camp to pay for claims against a North Carolina Council, for example. The LC is responsible for paying ONLY for claims in its territory OR its predecessor councils (where mergers occurred).

Would that mean that the amount a claimant receives is a function of the wealth/contribution of his LC?  So maybe a Greater Hudson claimant receives $69,000 while someone with the same injury receives much more or much less depending on the wealth of the LC?  I would have expected a more equalizing distribution.

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34 minutes ago, T2Eagle said:

So maybe a Greater Hudson claimant receives $69,000 while someone with the same injury receives much more or much less depending on the wealth of the LC? 

It might. Let me explain.

The Settlement Trustee will make a determination for each claimant how much their injury is valued at based on the Abuse Matrix. Let's say for round numbers a victim is able to provide evidence to the Trustee that he is entitled to $1 million in damages. Who then pays what will depend on later actions based on how much the insurance pays out.

The BSA will pay out to that victim NOW (or in the near future) $6,000. That's an average it could be little more or less depending on the abuse.

The LC will pay out NOW $69,000 (if in Greater Hudson). Remember $69,000 is an average, again, depends on abuse.

The remaining $925,000 will come out of insurance companies down the road, subject to limitations caps and such.

BUT let's say the person is in some other council. Same level and type of abuse, so $1 million.

BSA will pay $6,000.

LC will only pay $19,000 (because the LC has fewer camps, less resources, etc.)

The remaining $975,000 will come out of insurance companies down the road, subject to limitations caps and such.

So, yes, it could be a $1 million claim against an LC with little to no resources and an insurance plan that has limits/caps will result in MORE or LESS than the same claim in another LC with more resources.

The idea is that the abuse victim has a legal claim against the LC (Greater Hudson for example) and the assets of Circle Ten can NOT be transferred to cover that loss. They are legally separate entities.

That is why the TCC wanted council-by-council breakdowns to show victims how much each LC was contributing vs. how many resources they had. There are some councils with 0 or 1 camps (Pushmataha Area Council) and not even $1 million in total assets (again Pushmataha: $695k in TOTAL assets before restrictions and liabilies). There is no way they can compensate victims (2 non-time barred claims at least) the way Greater Hudson can.

Or you have Colonial Virginia Council with at least 5 non-time barred claims which lost its camp due to gross financial mismanagement, literally has NO land and property (they rent their scout store) and total assets (before liabilities and restrictions) of only $1.5 million. Etc.

Edited by CynicalScouter
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21 hours ago, Eagle91 said:

Descriptions of Camp Bullowa, Durland Scout Reservation, and Camp Nooteeming.

https://patch.com/new-york/newcity/3-hudson-valley-boy-scout-campgrounds-put-market

 

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On 3/25/2021 at 10:12 PM, RememberSchiff said:

Mar. 25, Maine — Pine Tree Council President Jack O'Toole told scouting parents this week that the council is selling Camp Gustin in Sabattus and Camp Nutter in Acton to raise money for its share of a Boy Scouts of America fund for victims of sexual abuse.

 O'Toole wrote. "We have been informed that we will be responsible for a very large cash contribution to go into a 'victims fund.' To put it into perspective, the amount the council will need to contribute will be much more than the total amount that Pine Tree Council has raised in a year."

...more at source link:

https://news.yahoo.com/boy-scouts-selling-sabattus-camp-223000285.html

https://www.sunjournal.com/2021/03/25/boy-scouts-selling-sabattus-camp-gustin-to-raise-money-for-abuse-victims-fund/

Separately earlier this week, a deal to purchase a third Pine Tree Council property, Camp Bomazeen fell through. Back in July, Pine Tree Council decided to sell Camp Bomazeen to raise funds to keep the council afloat. The council’s vote grew from an emergency task force’s recommendation to sell the property to raise money to help address the council’s bleak financial situation, which was made worse by the coronavirus pandemic forcing the cancellation of many Scout activities and fundraisers.

https://www.centralmaine.com/2021/03/21/potential-sale-of-beloved-belgrade-scouting-camp-falls-through/

:(

Update June 18, 2021.

The lawsuit filed by the Maine state AG’s office earlier this year :

1. alleges the council’s efforts to sell the camp to raise funds to help get out of debt violate the terms of the deed to the Great Pond property in place since the spot was donated by Dr. George Averill in the 1940s as a place where Scouts could camp.

2.  seeks to prevent the council from using proceeds from the proposed sale of Camp Bomazeen to pay the council’s operating expenses, creditors or debt. The suit also declares that any proceeds from that potential sale be held in trust “for the purposes of directly supporting camping activities for Boy Scouts in the Pine Tree Council Region, with a preference for Boy Scouts from central Maine.”

More at source link:

https://www.centralmaine.com/2021/06/18/attorney-general-camp-bomazeen-supporters-sue-pine-tree-council-of-boy-scouts/

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4 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

Descriptions of Camp Bullowa, Durland Scout Reservation, and Camp Nooteeming.

https://patch.com/new-york/newcity/3-hudson-valley-boy-scout-campgrounds-put-market

 

Hard to believe these camps need yet another appraisal to be sold.  :confused:

...In part, a possible purchase is complicated by the fact that there is no price tag. Camp Bullowa is being marketed along with two other Hudson Valley camps, to liquidate assets to pay for the settlements but brokers Cushman & Wakefield have not included an asking price.

“If the town purchased the land, a portion would continue to house the scouts and would be used for recreation while the rest would be preserved as open space,” said the (town) supervisor (Jim Monaghan). “But here’s the problem. The municipality can only pay for the land’s appraised value, or a 10 percent increase over that value, and we don’t have an appraisal.”

The (town) supervisor said he would initiate an independent appraisal for the land.

Council CEO Richard Stockton said the 501C3 is looking for the highest bidder.

“The Town of Stony Point can make a bid like any other buyer, but the Attorney General’s office will not let us sell for anything less than the appraised value,” Stockton said. Nonprofit organizations must seek approval from the New York State Attorney General’s Office or the court when it sells an asset to prove the sale is fair market value.

Stockton, clearly upset over the prospect of losing one or more of these three camps, also said the Council is going to seek to get as much as it can on one or more of the assets to satisfy its legal obligations. “We hope to retain at least one of these properties depending on the market value needed to fund our council’s contribution to the survivor’s compensation Trust as part of the national organization’s bankruptcy process,” he said.

Stockton would not say how much the Council needs to raise but he did explain that if it could salvage one or even two of the camps by selling a third at a high enough price, his organization would do so because the organization wants to preserve any camp that can be saved...

More at source:

https://rcbizjournal.com/2021/06/23/stony-point-supervisor-explores-options-to-purchase-camp-bullowa/

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