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10 hours ago, Armymutt said:

What is the reasoning behind the variation in amounts each council is contributing?  Can't be claim numbers.  Our council has 2 claims and is paying $1.9 million, while other councils have over 100 claims and are paying six figures.

First, no council has only 2 claims, there may be a council with only 2 NON TIME BARRED claims, but even the smallest councils have at least 4 claims.

I was told several factors but mostly 3

  1. Number of claims and how severe the claims of abuse that are TIME BARRED
  2. Number of claims and how severe the claims of abuse that are NOT TIME BARRED
  3. Total LC assets (both "restricted" and non-restricted)

No council was supposed to be left so destitute they had to stop operating. Of course, where that line got drawn and how many "restricted" assets were really "restricted" and therefore not open for the settlement trust was and is highly, highly debatable.

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@skepticand @CynicalScouter let's just drop it right now.  

Part of the problem, too, is that we are trying to create these country-club type experiences for people.  Swimming pools, air conditioning, hot showers and flush toilets, climbing towers, ATV program

They are not human shields, they are youth being served a high quality program. Please stop with the baiting of using comparisons. Victims on this site have stated that it is painful to see tho

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14 minutes ago, Armymutt said:

NC

All the NC councils had hundreds of claims, many of which were not time barred (due to state legislature lifting statute of limitations). So, paying millions makes sense there; they were on the hook for potentially a LOT more.

Based on your data (NC, $1.9 million) I believe you are

EAST CAROLINA    
179 TOTAL claims
174 NON TIME BARRED claims (meaning the victims could walk into court tomorrow and sue)
Total contribution = $1,940,873
Total contribution/number of TOTAL claims =  $10,842.87 (national average is $12,930)
Total contribution/number of NON TIME BARRED claims =   $11,154.44 (national average is $175,560)


Comparatively speaking, East Carolina is getting off "cheap"

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Just now, CynicalScouter said:

All the NC councils had hundreds of claims, many of which were not time barred (due to state legislature lifting statute of limitations). So, paying millions makes sense there; they were on the hook for potentially a LOT more.

Based on your data (NC, $1.9 million) I believe you are

EAST CAROLINA    
179 TOTAL claims
174 NON TIME BARRED claims (meaning the victims could walk into court tomorrow and sue)
Total contribution = $1,940,873
Total contribution/number of TOTAL claims =  $10,842.87 (national average is $12,930)
Total contribution/number of NON TIME BARRED claims =   $11,154.44 (national average is $175,560)


Comparatively speaking, East Carolina is getting off "cheap"

No, Occoneechee.  Everything I've seen shows 2 claims for us.  East Carolina is east of us, for now.  Grape vine says that may not last long.  Where are you seeing a minimum of 4?

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1 minute ago, Armymutt said:

No, Occoneechee.  Everything I've seen shows 2 claims for us.  East Carolina is east of us, for now.  Grape vine says that may not last long.  Where are you seeing a minimum of 4?

OCCONEECHEE

214 TOTAL claims

200 NON TIME BARRED claims (meaning the victims could walk into court tomorrow and sue)

Source: Official BSA documents filed with the court. Page 369

Unique and Timely Abuse Claim Count by Local Council

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/1a12ff15-6275-4111-af0d-7c683fdd59f2_6213.pdf

 

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6 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

Napowan will be sold off by the PAC (merged old Chicago Area plus others). 

They recommend going to Owasippe. 

https://myemail.constantcontact.com/Camp-Napowan-Property-Update.html?soid=1127193000603&aid=9Y0yimgjomo

This announcement illustrates for me the single biggest governance failure that is rampant in scouting --- complete lack of transparency and forthrightness.  There is absolutely no explanation provided as to why this decision was made --- zip, zilch, nada, nothing.  A pat on the head and and an instruction to run along and play, trust us we know what's best for everybody.

ETA, and this from a council that had a rebellion of CORs a few years back when they announced, again without  explanation, that they were going to sell off another camp ---, Owasippe.  They have learned nothing and changed nothing.

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17 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

Napowan will be sold off by the PAC (merged old Chicago Area plus others). 

They recommend going to Owasippe. 

https://myemail.constantcontact.com/Camp-Napowan-Property-Update.html?soid=1127193000603&aid=9Y0yimgjomo

And according to their website they have three council offices. So from four to two camps, but keep three offices.

That is what scouting has become in many councils. The office.

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19 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

Napowan will be sold off by the PAC (merged old Chicago Area plus others). 

They recommend going to Owasippe. 

https://myemail.constantcontact.com/Camp-Napowan-Property-Update.html?soid=1127193000603&aid=9Y0yimgjomo

Oofff.  That's a heck of a drive for most Chicagoans.  Maybe that means they'll actually put some money into Owasippe.  Right now that place looks like the set of a comedy flic where the stars are disappointed when they return to visit the place they remember fondly from their childhood.

I think I've actually seen tumbleweed blow across their parking lot before.

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5 hours ago, elitts said:

I think I've actually seen tumbleweed blow across their parking lot before

Tumbleweed? In Michigan? A few miles from Lake Michigan? And not much further from Huron? Half way to the UP?

I'll be honest, I used to live in Washington and they had lots of tumbleweeds - the type where a single one would fill a 96 gal garbage can and if you hit one on the highway it would just explode. And I had to explain to people that Eastern WA is not anything like the Western side. So, tumbleweeds in MI? Really?

 

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12 hours ago, elitts said:

That's a heck of a drive for most Chicagoans. 

That is what I thought. I grew up in the Chicago Suburbs and Owasippe had a great reputation, but was so far away.  NO ONE would ever go for a weekend campout, or a camporee. Not a very useful place to put millions. I have now experienced a council with 4 of our 5 camps within 1.5 hours or less. HUGH difference in how the camps are central to Scouting. 

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8 hours ago, David CO said:

Drive?  We always took a boat to Whitehall.  The lake cruise was the best part of the trip.  

 

That would be awesome, but I assumed that was only done in ancient times. The current closest ferry is Milwaukee.   

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10 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

That is what I thought. I grew up in the Chicago Suburbs and Owasippe had a great reputation, but was so far away.  NO ONE would ever go for a weekend campout, or a camporee. Not a very useful place to put millions. I have now experienced a council with 4 of our 5 camps within 1.5 hours or less. HUGH difference in how the camps are central to Scouting. 

My father in law and brother in law went to Napowan for summer camp.  Long troop road trip from Park Ridge, IL up there but my father in law always spoke fondly of it.  Harrison Ford, or "Harry" as he signed the staff board was a merit badge counselor in the Nature area at Napowan.  I'll have to see if my father in law ever went to Owasippe.  He has dementia so he may not remember.   

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