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5 minutes ago, Scouterlockport said:

Because I know just keeping to tradition is no gonna work because it hasn't for the last 20 years

Tradition is one of the main reasons I stick around. Not to say that there isn't innovative ways to do things, but the foundation is strong and remains so. I don't have a scouting background, but it's the elders I sought out and learned from that enables me to pass on that tradition. 

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17 minutes ago, OaklandAndy said:

Tradition is one of the main reasons I stick around. Not to say that there isn't innovative ways to do things, but the foundation is strong and remains so. I don't have a scouting background, but it's the elders I sought out and learned from that enables me to pass on that tradition. 

I understand that, I personally liked that stuff, but not every kid like the tradition alone especially when the is seen as hokey and uncool. A lot of our target scouts are nerds which is great, but they tend to like stem based topics and we need to fine a way to get this to be part of our outdoor program. But many scoutmaster are dead set on not wanting that to happen.

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Well, I think somebody ought to use the right quote. I couldn't find it in the Scouter search function, so here goes:

"A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you're talking real money...." =Everett  Dirksen =

Or maybe not....   https://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/a_billion_here_a_billion_there_pretty_soon_youre_talking_real_money#:~:text=The “billion here%2C billion there” quotation%2C however%2C goes,Times reported%3A “Well%2C now%2C about this new budget.

 

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13 hours ago, Scouterlockport said:

We complain when national has no high level employees with non scouting experience. That there is no new ideas or better business practice being brought in. But we complain about lost of tradition when the adults dont have a scouting background. Maybe there new perspective is what is going to save scouting. Because I know just keeping to tradition is no gonna work because it hasn't for the last 20 years

Well, I think you have a valid point.  Some of what has been around forever just has to go.

The issue is what traditions enhance participation in the program and which have lost their usefulness.

I wouldn't categorize every aspect of the program as a "tradition," such as requiring camping merit badge for Eagle. There are (or at least were) good reasons to require camping merit badge for Eagle.  It taught valuable skills-even life-saving skills.

And adopting modern business practices-that should always be a priority. 

I was thinking along the lines of the little things, practices, that scouts see day-to-day. That teach important skills or moral lessons.  The little things that give the program its flavor.

Not only the ones I mentioned, but things, like, back in the day:

--Scout patrols at camporees were expected to have a patrol yell, to be robustly performed at each station of camporee activities.

--Scout patrols were expected to have a patrol flag. Not any during my adult time.

--At Philmont, crews were issued an American flag to be tied to a tent pole.  1968.  By the time I was an advisor, about 2005, no crew flag.

--Summer camp staff would adopt a "personaa" and interact with scouts in their personna.  One memorable personaa was "Sparky" at my council's camp.  The scouts spoke of their interactions with Sparky and liked forward to seeing him next summer.

--"Leave a Campsite in better condition than you found it."  A good idea. A scout it helpful.  Instills a sense of duty in a scout (and is a hint that if they trash a camp, they will be cleaning up-so don't trash it in the first place). In the early days with the troop with my son, I'd put out a Leatherman Micra for some lucky scout to find.  And when found, I'd use that as a teachable moment to the troop-and the lucky scout got to keep it.

--Scouts used to prize attaining their Totin' Chip card, entitling them to carry a pocket knife.  That seems to be lost. "Violate a Totin' Chip rule and a corner will be clipped from your card.  Four corners clipped and you have to re-qualify."  No one wanted a single corner clipped.

Just a representative sample of what I have seen disappear. Maybe they are useless now, but learning how to close a pocket knife without trapping a finger seems important to me. 

A "tradition" which focuses the mind of a youth on a valuable life-skill, or leadership development skill, IF modern youth accept it as important, remains important.

And THANK YOU for responding to my post. You raised a very important issue.

And I will continue to consider the issue you raised.

Just what needs to be retained and what dropped.

Edited by SiouxRanger
ADDED last three paragraphs.
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13 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

--At Philmont, crews were issued an American flag to be tied to a tent pole.  1968.  By the time I was an advisor, about 2005, no crew flag.

 

2017 and 2021 we were issued a Crew flag, certainly wasn't a cotton 3'X5' flag by any means but our Crew Leader was issued one and told to take it on the trail with them both times.

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6 hours ago, satl8 said:

2017 and 2021 we were issued a Crew flag, certainly wasn't a cotton 3'X5' flag by any means but our Crew Leader was issued one and told to take it on the trail with them both times.

That is interesting.

I've been on 4 Philmont treks since 2005 and no flags were issued. I thought that was strange given my experience in the early 1970's.

The flags were probably 10" x 14" or so.

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20 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

Well, I think you have a valid point.  Some of what has been around forever just has to go.

The issue is what traditions enhance participation in the program and which have lost their usefulness.

I wouldn't categorize every aspect of the program as a "tradition," such as requiring camping merit badge for Eagle. There are (or at least were) good reasons to require camping merit badge for Eagle.  It taught valuable skills-even life-saving skills.

And adopting modern business practices-that should always be a priority. 

I was thinking along the lines of the little things, practices, that scouts see day-to-day. That teach important skills or moral lessons.  The little things that give the program its flavor.

Not only the ones I mentioned, but things, like, back in the day:

--Scout patrols at camporees were expected to have a patrol yell, to be robustly performed at each station of camporee activities.

--Scout patrols were expected to have a patrol flag. Not any during my adult time.

--At Philmont, crews were issued an American flag to be tied to a tent pole.  1968.  By the time I was an advisor, about 2005, no crew flag.

--Summer camp staff would adopt a "personaa" and interact with scouts in their personna.  One memorable personaa was "Sparky" at my council's camp.  The scouts spoke of their interactions with Sparky and liked forward to seeing him next summer.

--"Leave a Campsite in better condition than you found it."  A good idea. A scout it helpful.  Instills a sense of duty in a scout (and is a hint that if they trash a camp, they will be cleaning up-so don't trash it in the first place). In the early days with the troop with my son, I'd put out a Leatherman Micra for some lucky scout to find.  And when found, I'd use that as a teachable moment to the troop-and the lucky scout got to keep it.

--Scouts used to prize attaining their Totin' Chip card, entitling them to carry a pocket knife.  That seems to be lost. "Violate a Totin' Chip rule and a corner will be clipped from your card.  Four corners clipped and you have to re-qualify."  No one wanted a single corner clipped.

Just a representative sample of what I have seen disappear. Maybe they are useless now, but learning how to close a pocket knife without trapping a finger seems important to me. 

A "tradition" which focuses the mind of a youth on a valuable life-skill, or leadership development skill, IF modern youth accept it as important, remains important.

And THANK YOU for responding to my post. You raised a very important issue.

And I will continue to consider the issue you raised.

Just what needs to be retained and what dropped.

And, I just remembered the tradition of retiring from a campfire (camporee or summer camp), to one's campsite in silence. An opportunity to reflect on things. That always just struck me. Even upon arriving at our campsite, scouts still spoke softly. It had an effect.

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9 hours ago, satl8 said:

2017 and 2021 we were issued a Crew flag, certainly wasn't a cotton 3'X5' flag by any means but our Crew Leader was issued one and told to take it on the trail with them both times.

As a crew leader in ''76 I was given a small bicentennial flag.   Although somewhat stained and faded it occupies an honored place in my 'scout box'.

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16 hours ago, satl8 said:

2017 and 2021 we were issued a Crew flag, certainly wasn't a cotton 3'X5' flag by any means but our Crew Leader was issued one and told to take it on the trail with them both times.

I still have one from our trek in 1979.  The crew honored me with it when we got off trail.  

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The Ohio Department of Natural Resources has purchased 477 acres at the former Woodland Trails Scout Reservation and will make it a part of state’s wildlife preserve in Preble County.

ODNR paid the Miami Valley Council of Boy Scouts of America $1.815 million for the property, according to Brian Plasters, Ohio Division of Wildlife spokesman.

...

Jeffrey Schiavone, Miami Valley Council scout executive/CEO, said the final parcel, the core area of the camp, has not been placed on the market for sale. The portion that was sold last week was deemed as “excess land.”

“This sale will allow the Miami Valley Council to make our contribution to the National BSA’s Survivor’s Trust, along with all local councils across the country, which will achieve two key imperatives: equitably compensate survivors of past abuse and ensure the mission of Scouting to continues in our communities,” Schiavone said. “Since the beginning of this process, we’ve been hyper-focused on continuing Scouting’s long-standing tradition of environmental stewardship, and we are very happy that the land is placed in the hands of a conservation-minded organization with ODNR.”

More details at source link:

https://www.journal-news.com/local/odnr-purchases-part-of-woodland-trails-camp-from-boy-scouts/CMDAP2HZKFBDTHES6PYF77OEP4/

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4 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

The Ohio Department of Natural Resources has purchased 477 acres at the former Woodland Trails Scout Reservation and will make it a part of state’s wildlife preserve in Preble County.

ODNR paid the Miami Valley Council of Boy Scouts of America $1.815 million for the property, according to Brian Plasters, Ohio Division of Wildlife spokesman.

...

Jeffrey Schiavone, Miami Valley Council scout executive/CEO, said the final parcel, the core area of the camp, has not been placed on the market for sale. The portion that was sold last week was deemed as “excess land.”

“This sale will allow the Miami Valley Council to make our contribution to the National BSA’s Survivor’s Trust, along with all local councils across the country, which will achieve two key imperatives: equitably compensate survivors of past abuse and ensure the mission of Scouting to continues in our communities,” Schiavone said. “Since the beginning of this process, we’ve been hyper-focused on continuing Scouting’s long-standing tradition of environmental stewardship, and we are very happy that the land is placed in the hands of a conservation-minded organization with ODNR.”

More details at source link:

https://www.journal-news.com/local/odnr-purchases-part-of-woodland-trails-camp-from-boy-scouts/CMDAP2HZKFBDTHES6PYF77OEP4/

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Camp Gustin (95 acres) is among 20 properties selected for Land for Maine’s Future conservation program.

Matt Klutzaritz, Pine Tree Council CSE, said the property is expected to be conveyed in the next few months. “We are pleased the Androscoggin Land Trust will be purchasing the property, thus protecting it in perpetuity for Scouts and the general public,” Klutzaritz said. “We have been working with Androscoggin Land Trust  for some time and we feel that this is an excellent collaboration for this wonderful property.”

Aimee Dorval, executive director of Androscoggin Land Trust, said the property will be open to the public in the near future. Boy Scouts will not have exclusive use of the land, but will be able to hold some special events and use the camp, she said.

Source:

https://www.pressherald.com/2022/06/06/five-local-projects-among-20-picked-for-land-for-maines-future-conservation-program/

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22 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

The Ohio Department of Natural Resources has purchased 477 acres at the former Woodland Trails Scout Reservation and will make it a part of state’s wildlife preserve in Preble County.

ODNR paid the Miami Valley Council of Boy Scouts of America $1.815 million for the property, according to Brian Plasters, Ohio Division of Wildlife spokesman.

...

Jeffrey Schiavone, Miami Valley Council scout executive/CEO, said the final parcel, the core area of the camp, has not been placed on the market for sale. The portion that was sold last week was deemed as “excess land.”

“This sale will allow the Miami Valley Council to make our contribution to the National BSA’s Survivor’s Trust, along with all local councils across the country, which will achieve two key imperatives: equitably compensate survivors of past abuse and ensure the mission of Scouting to continues in our communities,” Schiavone said. “Since the beginning of this process, we’ve been hyper-focused on continuing Scouting’s long-standing tradition of environmental stewardship, and we are very happy that the land is placed in the hands of a conservation-minded organization with ODNR.”

More details at source link:

https://www.journal-news.com/local/odnr-purchases-part-of-woodland-trails-camp-from-boy-scouts/CMDAP2HZKFBDTHES6PYF77OEP4/

I went to Woodland Trails several times as a youth and a adult volunteer. Was a pretty good camp, but was definitely struggling by the mid 2010's. Beautiful property. Glad ODNR got a chunk of it. 

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