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Be The Change, Inaugural Class of Female Eagle Scouts, Feb 21, 8pm ET


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29 minutes ago, KublaiKen said:

And I would agree with your self-assessment. My caution comes because in this very thread I was called a hypocrite for not trying to make GSUSA accept boys.

Was the post edited, or the word misspelled? Because when I searched, you were the first to use it in this thread. I ask, because we do call each other out on ad homenim arguments, and would have done so had I noticed.

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I respectfully disagree with this. 1. There has been plenty of fanfare about boys reaching Eagle in the past 110 years. That is what has made it one of the single-most recognizable and lauded you

1) We honor Rosa Parks for refusing to give up her seat on that bus. Too much "fanfare" about her. Too much "Grandstanding". White people had been sitting on buses for years! 2) We honor Susan B.

Thank you for your opinion.  Everyone has one.  The fanfare and grandstanding is the fault of the BSA. Over the top.  The bragging is the fault of the girls or their parents doing so. 

22 minutes ago, KublaiKen said:

And I would agree with your self-assessment. My caution comes because in this very thread I was called a hypocrite for not trying to make GSUSA accept boys.

I know how you feel, I am called a sexist because I would rather the BSA to stay away from coed troops.

I've yet to hear anyone on this forum call the GSUSA sexist. So, yes, hypocrites comes to mind. How can I be sexist for my preference and the GSUSA acceptable for theirs?

I just called it as I see it. I am certainly open to a civil dialog. I like to think myself as humble and can be swayed. But as you saw yesterday, some folks look at discussions as a battle to be won and don't mind wrestling playing dirty to protect their pride.

Barry

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23 hours ago, Eagledad said:

Seems like you poking the GSUSA in the eye to me.

I'm tired of hypocrites using girls in the BSA as a prop to brag about girls in scouting without any comment of the existing Girl scouting organizing that does not promote a co-ed program. The BSA took a lot of heat for not being, well lets say progressive, but the GSUSA gets a pass. Comes off a pollical male bashing to me. You have your coed BSA, now go deride the GSUSA like you did to the BSA and push for the first 1000 Gold Award males. 

Barry

 

@qwazse, and see today's post above. Of note, I have not called anybody nor any organization sexist, nor used the term.

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10 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

I know how you feel, I am called a sexist because I would rather the BSA to stay away from coed troops.

I've yet to hear anyone on this forum call the GSUSA sexist. So, yes, hypocrites comes to mind. How can I be sexist for my preference and the GSUSA acceptable for theirs?

I just called it as I see it. I am certainly open to a civil dialog. I like to think myself as humble and can be swayed. But as you saw yesterday, some folks look at discussions as a battle to be won and don't mind wrestling playing dirty to protect their pride.

Barry

Barry, I don't think I have done any of those things to you, and if you feel I did then I apologize.

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*sigh*

Who gets hurt by all this back and forth?  You? Me?  Nah....

Any organization, BSA, GSUSA,  4H,  MYF,  CLDSoJC,  BPS,  KoC, VFW,  AL,  NHS,  RR, Campfire, name any acronym you like,  they all have a "standard", a "program" , a "highest award" that a member can aspire to.  Youth or adult. 

The difference between the GSUSA and the BSA has always been one of policy and program.  Regardless of any mono-gender requirement. 

Firstly,  BSA has always had a program and training to match that REQUIRED an outdoor, active, lifestyle.  The adult leaders were (are?) REQUIRED to buy into this. They were REQUIRED to participate in  the hiking, , camping stuff.  The possible "watering down" of the BSA program is not at issue here. BSA reputation has ALWAYS been one of outdoor activity. Not so in the GSUSA.   If  adult leaders (yes, only women, another discussion please) wanted to do the outdoorsy stuff with their girls, they could IF THEY IF WANTED TO.   Such was not required or expected. So girls who wanted a more active, down and dirty, physically challenging program might not be able to see that in their local GSUSA Troop if the leader(s) did not see that possibility.  This is regardless of  Ms Low's original desire and design.  Today, therefore, each GSUSA Troop is unique, and need not have the same possible program as the one in the next neighborhood, regardless of what folks may say about the various "adventures" in the book. "This Troop doesn't go camping", so I have heard.   

Second, the GSUSA design officially does not include the continuation of a GSUSA Troop.  The usual thing is for a group of "brownies" to form, and that one group works thru the program of their particular adult leader until they graduate, and that GSUSA Troop disbands.  I have heard of  GSUSA leaders  who welcome younger girls into their Troop , such that that Troop has an ongoing life, being chastised by the local GSUSA group (Council?) for doing so. No GSUSA Troop should exist past 10 or 12 years. How does that square with the BSA tradition of Packs, Troops, Posts, lasting many , many decades? 

Third,  The adult leader may limit the number of girls they will ALLOW in their Troop.  Yes, I have been told, "oh no, we have enough girls. We don't want any more Brownies in our Troop."   Huh?   And we are so  in favor of the BSA we have recruitment drives and "Scout Nights"?  I have NEVER heard that from ANY Cubmaster or Scoutmaster.  

Fourth,  we forget the capitalistic tradition of  depending on "The Market Place" to determine the rise or fall of any particular endeavor.  If there are girls who want what their  brothers have had, and the BSA can adapt to provide it, why not?   If the GSUSA does not see the opportunity  being missed,  of course they may react defensively.  But that does not explain the public ignorance of the GSUSA Gold Award,  worthy tho it may be (and is) . 

The first group of young women who have worked to be awarded the BSA Eagle need that accolation.   Yes, after the initial brouhaha dies down, we will be more able to celebrate the "usual" Eagle.   AND the "usual "Gold Award".

And perhaps the GSUSA will see the need to be more  allowing of  Julia Low's original outdoorsy challenging program.....  . 

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5 minutes ago, KublaiKen said:

@qwazse, and see today's post above. Of note, I have not called anybody nor any organization sexist, nor used the term.

I'm sorry. In my frame of reference, sexism and hypocrisy are two different things. It is possible to eschew one and not the other. Regardless, I think the point is that those who favor organizational segregation do not feel that they are sexist. And, although they feel alternate views are philosophically inconsistent, they have not labeled the people who hold them as hypocrites.

For my part, I think it's a mistake to lionize this batch of Eagle scouts. If there was a "lion" in this movement, it was Mike Sarbaugh, who made the executive decision to grant girls access to the program, and proceeded over a couple of years to "herd" a critical mass of scouters into accepting it. Of course, he was pushed along by numerous venturers and arrowmen who kept questioning the principle of sex segregation. If one good thing comes from GS/USA's suit, it will be a discovery of the thinking of both national boards -- great fodder for some historian to synthesize in the next decade and think of better ways for both organizations to collaborate for the well-being of your youth.

That process will take decades of iteration since our nation lacks a POTUS who (perhaps, along with the 1st lady) will lean on execs in both organizations to "play better together." But, interfering not help election prospects, so here we are.

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I would love to see the breakdown of these girls:

 

Ages:   18+, 16-17, 14-15, below 14  .  The 18+ are no longer members of Scouts BSA.  Hopefully the next older ones will stay until 18 and help out or will they follow a lot of the boys and vanish after their BOR/COH.

How many were given extensions?  We know there were a number who were doing the requirements from their college dorms.   Wonder how many boys joined that later and asked for extensions?

What size troops were they in?  We know there were approximately 33000 girls in Scouts BSA at the end of 2020.

What  PORs did these girls have?

A number of the pictures you see of the girls have them with the extra long sash full of MBs in 2 years or less.  Don't see boys with that many.

 

Just curious,

 

 

 

 

 

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