Be The Change, Inaugural Class of Female Eagle Scouts, Feb 21, 8pm ET

[Eagledad 2777]

3 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

1) We honor Rosa Parks for refusing to give up her seat on that bus. Too much "fanfare" about her. Too much "Grandstanding". White people had been sitting on buses for years!

2) We honor Susan B. Anthony and the other suffragettes for getting (and exercising) the right to vote. Too much "fanfare" about her. Too much "Grandstanding". Men had been voting for 200+ years!

3) We honor Sandra Day O’Connor as the first woman on the Supreme Court. Too much "fanfare" about her. Too much "Grandstanding". Men had been doing it for over 200+ years!

I'm with you man. We have no business honoring women firsts whatsoever. Too much "fanfare" about her. Too much "Grandstanding".

You  might have made some points if you could have included some non-female firsts, but instead you proved my point that this was more a celebration of a political victory than the individual accomplishment. Your response cheapens the honor of Eagle.

Barry

[CynicalScouter 1434]

7 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

You  might have made some points if you could have included some non-female firsts, but instead you proved my point that this was more a celebration of a political victory than the individual accomplishment. Your response cheapens the honor of Eagle.

Barry

The point is that we have honored women firsts for generations. Women who fought to be equals. Rosa Parks. O'Connor. The suffragists, including but not limited to Susan B. Anthony.

These scouts should be commended for what they accomplished. Not condemned, mocked, ridiculed, or accused of "grandstanding" or "bragging" (I'll be sure to tell my SM that we end Eagle Courts of Honor since that is now "bragging").

What cheapens Eagle is men who still cling to the idea girls/women are lesser, inferiors who shouldn't be allowed to even try and obtain the Eagle rank.

What cheapens Eagle is men who want to go back to the "old days" where women knew their place (and that place was NOT in BSA).

I'll stand behind and in support of Parks, O'Connor, Anthony, and others who achieved firsts DESPITE THOSE SEXIST HEADWINDS.

Decide for yourself what side you'd rather be on.

Edited February 24, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[KublaiKen 192]

There is an inherent political component to any first when that group was excluded from the achievement by political means. In most cases, the differentiating factor that led to exclusion is race, sex, religion, etc.

Jackie Robinson

Barack Obama

Thurgood Marshall

John F. Kennedy

Female Eagle Scouts

We also celebrate significant firsts when those were not differentiating factors, like George Washington, or even when the means of exclusion were not political, like Neil Armstrong.

[Eagledad 2777]

6 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

What cheapens Eagle is men who still cling to the idea girls/women are lesser, inferiors who shouldn't be allowed to even try and obtain the Eagle rank.

What cheapens Eagle is men who want to go back to the "old days" where women knew their place (and that place was NOT in BSA).

I'll stand behind and in support of Parks, O'Connor, Anthony, and others who achieved firsts DESPITE THOSE SEXIST HEADWINDS.

Decide for yourself what side you'd rather be on.

Hey, don't try to force me into your emotional delusional world. There was nothing sexist about the BSA. Do you believe the GSUSA is sexist? I don't, but I'm not a political activist. But, well, you need to be very careful with your answer because I personally don't see an easy out for you.

Barry

[CynicalScouter 1434]

12 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Hey, don't try to force me into your emotional delusional world.

In my world, girls and women who are able to achieve great things as firsts after men told them "no" are to be applauded.

Rosa Parks (was told she couldn't sit in the front of that bus)

O'Connor (was told when she came out of law school she should just be a legal secretary)

Anthony and the Suffragists (told they could not vote)

Female Eagle Scouts (told they could not earn it)

Not condemned as "grandstanding" or engaged in "fanfare".

Edited February 24, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[Eagledad 2777]

1 minute ago, CynicalScouter said:

In my world, girls and woman who are able to achieve great things are to be applauded. Not condemned as "grandstanding" or engaged in "fanfare".

In my world both men and woman are applauded. 

By the way, you emotions misled your anger. The one poster who said that was demeaning the Eagle award, not the MEN or women who earn it. 

Barry

[tnmule20 68]

34 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

I sure hope you've castigated any/all boys who have celebrated their Eagle scout status as "bragging". I'm betting, however, you have not.

 

You don't read very good Cynical. "Bragging" was  aimed at the females that are bragging about being a Gold award recipient and an Eagle rank recipient.  Kind of hard to castigate the boys for that one since they are unable to do so but the girls are making it abundantly clear that they are able to do so. 

[CynicalScouter 1434]

13 minutes ago, tnmule20 said:

"Bragging" was  aimed at the females that are bragging about being a Gold award recipient and an Eagle rank recipient.

I see. So simply noting your awards is bragging...if you are a girl/woman.

Got it.

Edited February 24, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[yknot 1338]

Most of the people who I know who have been "first" at something are oblivious to being "firsts". Or, if they are aware, they are embarrassed or aggravated by it. For the most part, they've simply been people who were driven enough by passion or ability that they succeeded in overcoming barriers where others before them had failed. Some of these girl Eagle Scouts no doubt have pushy parents or some hubris of their own, but for the most part they seem to be just more great scouts. I don't have any issue with BSA making a big deal of this because it's good PR and will help market the organization at a time when it needs all the good press and recruitment help it can get. I think it has been destructive for BSA to focus so intently on promoting Eagle Scout status but that's a crisis for a future day if and when it emerges from bankruptcy. 

 

[qwazse 4342]

Without telling them, there were several reasons why I wanted our troop's boys and parents to know about this recognition:

• It might inspire a few sisters to "Scout In".
• It also gives Scouts BSA girls who are also in GS/USA a pulpit to promote the Gold Award. Some of you are negative about that, but I consider it to be a positive. For a number of reasons GS/USA has not tracked the future successes of its top awardees. Sure, lots of us here know about it, but IMHO it does not have the on-the-street recognition that it deserves.
• Some of our scouts get stalled in their advancement, and don't realize how quickly they can move things along.
• There were some good project ideas there. Most Life scouts could use more ideas.
• The social media interaction might inspire our scouts to try something similar. Some of our boys are making instructional videos for school. So, more examples of scouts presenting and recording themselves might help that process.
• Some of our boys can relate to the testimonials about stepping up to leadership challenges. They aren't comfortable with it. Or, they try once and it ends badly (e.g., a boy may get labeled "bossy" just as readily as a girl). Regardless, it helps for those boys to know that other kids are out there who once felt the same way and learned to lead well in the process of advancing.

Anyway, I shared the link with the troop because the list of positives about the event overshadowed the "first ever" hoopla.

[David CO 1783]

2 hours ago, qwazse said:

•  
• It also gives Scouts BSA girls who are also in GS/USA a pulpit to promote the Gold Award.

You are right about one thing.  Dual membership might have the effect of intimidating one organization to be more like the other.  I think this is a bad thing.  People should choose the group they like and leave the other alone.

[KublaiKen 192]

2 hours ago, David CO said:

... People should choose the group they like and leave the other alone.

Be careful with that thinking: believing that one organization to which you belong should change its rules but then not arguing that another organization with which you have no agency should change its rules will get you labeled a hypocrite.

[tnmule20 68]

9 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

The point is that we have honored women firsts for generations. Women who fought to be equals. Rosa Parks. O'Connor. The suffragists, including but not limited to Susan B. Anthony.

These scouts should be commended for what they accomplished. Not condemned, mocked, ridiculed, or accused of "grandstanding" or "bragging" (I'll be sure to tell my SM that we end Eagle Courts of Honor since that is now "bragging").

What cheapens Eagle is men who still cling to the idea girls/women are lesser, inferiors who shouldn't be allowed to even try and obtain the Eagle rank.

What cheapens Eagle is men who want to go back to the "old days" where women knew their place (and that place was NOT in BSA).

I'll stand behind and in support of Parks, O'Connor, Anthony, and others who achieved firsts DESPITE THOSE SEXIST HEADWINDS.

Decide for yourself what side you'd rather be on.

Cynical,

Bless your heart. 

Your self righteousness must be a heavy burden, like a millstone hanging around your neck. 

We all seem to get a dose.

I stand by my original statement. 

[David CO 1783]

2 hours ago, KublaiKen said:

Be careful with that thinking: believing that one organization to which you belong should change its rules but then not arguing that another organization with which you have no agency should change its rules will get you labeled a hypocrite.

Not at all.  I have some very strong feeling about the direction I feel my Church should be taking.  Other religions may do as they please.  They don't concern me.  They have their own beliefs.  I don't think myself a hypocrite for not interfering in the course they set for themselves.

Same in scouting.  If I had my way, we would have girl scouts, boy scouts, and co-ed scouts, each with its own organization.  I would join the one I want.  The others may do as they please.

 

[KublaiKen 192]

11 hours ago, David CO said:

Not at all.  I have some very strong feeling about the direction I feel my Church should be taking.  Other religions may do as they please.  They don't concern me.  They have their own beliefs.  I don't think myself a hypocrite for not interfering in the course they set for themselves.

Same in scouting.  If I had my way, we would have girl scouts, boy scouts, and co-ed scouts, each with its own organization.  I would join the one I want.  The others may do as they please.

 

And I would agree with your self-assessment. My caution comes because in this very thread I was called a hypocrite for not trying to make GSUSA accept boys.