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9 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

Correct, except the fitness requirements are in series.  So, you cannot count the same 30 days/4 weeks of fitness for T - 2nd - 1st.  The fitness is really the primary reason you can't go from cross over to 1st class in 3 - 4 weeks. 

The really smart or savvy scouts double-dip.

Rank Fitness can be combined with Personal Fitness Merit Badge (with some minor modifications).

Rank Swim can be combined with Swimming MB

Rank First Aid can be combine with First Aid MB.

Now, some purists will squeal about this of course...

Etc.

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The really smart or savvy scouts double-dip. Rank Fitness can be combined with Personal Fitness Merit Badge (with some minor modifications). Rank Swim can be combined with Swimming MB R

I don't think there is anything really wrong with what this kid did. He's obviously committed and he met all the requirements. My issue is that this kind of thing -- zipping through to Eagle and extre

Probably the best & only way to really consider this story.  I was 15yo when I went for my EBOR and faced a crotchety old scouter who thought you should be at least 16 and preferably 17 to earn Ea

Historical note, 12 year old Eagle Scouts are not a recent phenomenon. Some on this forum earned Eagle at age 12 back in the 70's and perhaps earlier.

FCFY yeah, over the years our helicopter parents often had a common goal that their son would complete Eagle before beginning high school. 

Today, we see 12 year olds far exceeding the merit badge requirements for Eagle. Maybe Eagle Palms MB requirements should be 25, 50, 100?

Or maybe, Advancement needs reconsideration?

My $0.02,

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7 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

FCFY yeah, over the years our helicopter parents often had a common goal that their son would complete Eagle before beginning high school. 

The operative theory being that if they don't make Eagle by 14-15 that they will get more interested in "fumes" (car fumes and perfumes) and never make it.

Until 3 days before they turn 18 then we get the screaming Eagles trying to slam together 3 months worth of MBs in 3 hours.

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12 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

The operative theory being that if they don't make Eagle by 14-15 that they will get more interested in "fumes" (car fumes and perfumes) and never make it.

Until 3 days before they turn 18 then we get the screaming Eagles trying to slam together 3 months worth of MBs in 3 hours.

Screaming Eagles. Love it.   More like screeching parents?    Email to Scoutmaster:   Why didn't you help my son more?   

"I coulda been somebody.  I coulda been ... an Eagle.....

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2 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

The operative theory being that if they don't make Eagle by 14-15 that they will get more interested in "fumes" (car fumes and perfumes) and never make it.

I'm sure there is that but we are seeing parents with planned high school roadmaps for college - AP classes, the "right" extracurriculars, SAT prep, more SAT prep, writing courses, scholarship applications, pre-college summer sessions, ...a lot to do...

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8 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

Historical note, 12 year old Eagle Scouts are not a recent phenomenon. Some on this forum earned Eagle at age 12 back in the 70's and perhaps earlier.

FCFY yeah, over the years our helicopter parents often had a common goal that their son would complete Eagle before beginning high school. 

Today, we see 12 year olds far exceeding the merit badge requirements for Eagle. Maybe Eagle Palms MB requirements should be 25, 50, 100?

Or maybe, Advancement needs reconsideration?

My $0.02,

In my troop growing up it was summarized like this:  If making Eagle is important to you, try to get it done before you get your driver's license as we've seen a lot of scouts get distracted past that point and never finish.  I don't think I ever saw an Eagle younger than 14. 

I always thought Eagle palms were dumb and only pursued by kids trying to one up each other.  Want to keep earning merit badges?  Cool, you get merit badges- you aren't some kind of "super Eagle."

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28 minutes ago, SSScout said:

Screaming Eagles. Love it.   More like screeching parents?

The charitable translation is "screaming" as in "extremely fast" (Screaming in for a landing).

The uncharitable one is...yeah yelling.

My favorite was the one who returned after being dormant for about a year. Rammed and jammed his MBs at merit badge colleges and such. Shows up, Eagle project paperwork in hand. Person he wanted to help with the project lined up and a date set (that weekend).

He handed the project book (dad accompanying him) to the SM and CC with T-minus 4 days before the project and ~21 days until he turned 18 and just expected them and council to sign. Again, had not seen nor heard from this kid for MONTHS.

Yeah. SM and CC told him and dad no.

Appeal to Council: extension granted (blamed COVID, but come on now) and he transferred to a tiny unit who was willing to sign anything put in front of them because they wanted another name on the Eagle wall.

Sigh.

 

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1 hour ago, RememberSchiff said:

I'm sure there is that but we are seeing parents with planned high school roadmaps for college - AP classes, the "right" extracurriculars, SAT prep, more SAT prep, writing courses, scholarship applications, pre-college summer sessions, ...a lot to do...

LOL ... I know such a parent.  ... comments removed ... he's a friend ... his son has applied to five colleges ... all are at least 1000 miles away.  The kid wants to lead his own life now.

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I think there's a huge fear, all across the BSA, that without eagle the entire program would collapse. It's likely true because that's how it's been run for a very long time. There has been this pinnacle achievement that is front and center and hard to work around. The problem is that the pinnacle has little to do with the aims.

But it begs the question of what would it take to run a successful program without a pinnacle achievement? It couldn't depend on parents that have mapped out their kids' lives. It must have a solid program. I think it would still require learning lots of skills, but maybe the scouts could have more say in which skills. Maybe rather than fcfy it should be learn to create your own goals in the first year. Rather than seeing all the check boxes, scouts and parents should be seeing teamwork and independence.

There needs to be a framework that the scouts can wrap their heads around and also gives them enough guidance to get going. But it seems to me that it needs to be much less restrictive than eagle. Rather than tell them this is the mountain you need to climb maybe just telling them to start hiking is a better approach. Just play the game.

 

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1 hour ago, RememberSchiff said:

I'm sure there is that but we are seeing parents with planned high school roadmaps for college - AP classes, the "right" extracurriculars, SAT prep, more SAT prep, writing courses, scholarship applications, pre-college summer sessions, ...a lot to do...

This is the norm by me. Eagle early because the demands of AP, sports, other extracurriculars, summer enrichment, and college search and process are all consuming by high school. 

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22 minutes ago, MattR said:

The problem is that the pinnacle has little to do with the aims.

How much is that true, though, if as I believe the latest numbers indicate only 6% of scouts make Eagle? Eagle's the flashy, shiny thing that may get scouts (or really scout parents) in the door for Scouts, BSA. But I barely heard mention of Eagle in my Cub den(s).

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16 minutes ago, MattR said:

There needs to be a framework that the scouts can wrap their heads around and also gives them enough guidance to get going. But it seems to me that it needs to be much less restrictive than eagle. Rather than tell them this is the mountain you need to climb maybe just telling them to start hiking is a better approach. Just play the game.

Yes,  that would help differentiate scouting from high school (need 4yrs of English, 2yrs of History, 2yrs foreign language,...).  How many Eagle required MBs are there now?

My sons were drawn to colleges that offered "design your own degree" and/or multiple minors. - hike around the mountains out there before deciding what mountain or mountains to climb.

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1 minute ago, CynicalScouter said:

How much is that true, though, if as I believe the latest numbers indicate only 6% of scouts make Eagle? Eagle's the flashy, shiny thing that may get scouts (or really scout parents) in the door for Scouts, BSA. But I barely heard mention of Eagle in my Cub den(s).

I think this really depends on where you are. Also, the 6% is misleading because that includes cubs. We historically lose somewhere between 50% to 80% of our scouts at or right after crossover. I think it's more relevant to look at the percentage of troop age scouts who graduate to Eagle because that's why a lot of them stay in scouting. In our area, much is made of Eagle in the cub years.  

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7 minutes ago, yknot said:

 

This is the norm by me. Eagle early because the demands of AP, sports, other extracurriculars, summer enrichment, and college search and process are all consuming by high school. 

Depends upon the unit in my neck of the woods. The "High Speed, Low Drag" aka "One and Done" units,  I see a few under 15. These are adult run, advancement driven units. And once they earn Eagle, they are gone. Old school units tend to be older 16-18 years old. Their focus is not advancement, but to provide opportunities for advancement. Mostly youth run, and their Eagles tend to remain either as youth, or ASMs until they leave for college, the military, careers, etc. My 17 year old is still in until he leaves for college in the fall. Our newest, who just turned 18, is our newest ASM, and will be active until he also leaves for college in the fall. 

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