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OA is cursed by the "One and done" pattern of behavior.  Many - really most - who pass the Ordeal, entitling them to wear tha OA Sash, are never seen again at any OA funtion, much less OA service project.

 Equally, many Wood Badgers think they have achieved the very pinacle of Scpouting competence, and are never seen at any training thereafter.  Indeed many, having rreached the "mountain top," drop out of Scouting.

But it' a volunteer organization.  The average Scoutmaster has tenure under a year.  

I have found that there is always more to learn, and especially from those taking training, who bring their life-time of experience and unique insights and are quite willing to share is given a chance.

You have had the experiences that yu have had.  All I can ask is that you not cast such a wide net of obloquy with your "they."  

 

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We had a WB beading ceremony (??) that was done at a troop meeting.  Ran, I kid you not, 45 minutes.  I too felt like we were hostages.   Most leaders input was "and that's why I will never go to WB"

Time for a rant. This has nothing to do with how people are arguing about this topic. That part is fine. However, ... Between this thread and the eagle at 12 thread, is there any wonder that scou

(pre-covid) I already donate a dozen plus hours a week.  Every time I sign up for an "away from home" activity, it affects my marriage and family.  So when I can, I prioritize wife and kids and look f

Time for a rant. This has nothing to do with how people are arguing about this topic. That part is fine. However, ...

Between this thread and the eagle at 12 thread, is there any wonder that scouting does not interest youth? It looks like this program is nothing without recognition. When my son was in soccer the entire recognition for everyone, youth and adults, was at the end of the season, at a barbecue. It lasted maybe 15 minutes. The coach talked about each kid. Some parent thanked all the adults that helped out. Then dessert was served. Done. The program, the reason why kids wanted to be there, was the games. There were no worries about adults making it all about them. No worries about youth progressing too fast. No eagle. No knots. No one and done. No FOS. No BORs. No round table. No OA. No Scoutbook. Certainly no adult recognition dinners. I just get the feeling that all these sources of argument are nothing but contraptions that adults created so they could feel important.

Maybe the program shouldn't be so important. Maybe all the shiny objects should be thrown out so the kids can just have fun. The scouts need places to camp and adults that know how to teach skills. That's it. It's a lot like soccer. If it doesn't support that then chuck it. If people can't support that then they are no longer needed.

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4 hours ago, mashmaster said:

He never said he was anti-Woodbadge.  And he isn't beating up Woodbadge.  He stated that very clearly above.

I never said he was anti-Wood Badge.  I said he's beating up Wood Badge.  I stand by that statement.

My point is that as someone who is not anti-Wood Badge these sorts of statements jump out at me:

7 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

I think there's two challenges here:

1) The watering down of the program. Having never taken it in any of its iterations, I cannot comment.

2) The Really Big Deal Cult. This manifests as a) acting as of they were elites/putting on airs/talking down to other Scouters (rare, I saw this only once personally, but I know it is a concern) or b) the cult of constant reference. I don't care what your critter is or was. I'm sorry, I really don't. And all that kind of referencing and chanting and singing and beading ceremonies that cut into scout time does is to send an "us cool kids club" message that you aren't part of the "cool kids".

 

6 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

Nope. I am not bashing Wood Badge. As I said, I never took the program, so I don't know.

What I am "bashing" is The Really Big Deal Cult.

[PERSONAL STORY REMOVED FOR QUOTING]

So sorry, I am not a fan of Wood Badge is Wood Badge translates into "I am better than you."

That said, I recognize not all Wood Badge people act like this. But they certainly embrace the cult of critters and talking amongst themselves and acting like there a club-within-a-club and if you are not part of the "club" then...oh well.

We all get it - there are people who are over the top - it happens in every organization.  But, we do not need to look for opportunity after opportunity to complain about it.  We don't need to create labels like "Really Big Deal Cult" or "cult of critters" or assert that Wood Badge translates into "I am better than you."

Point made, complaint registered.  Can we please stop taking every opportunity that arises to complain about those Wood Badgers who go over the top.  The continued negativity towards the program adds up.  Truthfully, you're not discouraging the pompus windbags from attending - you're discouraging the decent, humble Scouters who could benefit from the program.

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7 hours ago, ParkMan said:

In my son's time in Cub Scouts, we saw two beadings. 

 

I've been thru dozens.  At least 20+.  Sometimes it was monthly.  Each was half recognition and half promotion.  It gets old.

I like Woodbadge.  It was useful.  No where near premiere training, but it was useful.  For me, I learned alot about the "ideal" on how things should work.  I got little from each training session as I'd been thru high performance team training multiple times.  But how the event was run, (marching, sons, structure, B&G banquet style, cross over, etc) was extremely useful.  

For me, it's the sitting thru promotion after promotion.

But you're right.  Enough bashing.  It's not scout like.

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25 minutes ago, MattR said:

Maybe the program shouldn't be so important. Maybe all the shiny objects should be thrown out so the kids can just have fun. The scouts need places to camp and adults that know how to teach skills. That's it. It's a lot like soccer. If it doesn't support that then chuck it. If people can't support that then they are no longer needed.

IMHO, the things the scouts are going to remember aren't the awards, they are the adventures, experiences, and trainwrecks of campouts/meals.  The scouts need us (even if it is only for transportation) but they really do remember everything that happens on the adventures.  If you talk to someone in their 50's that is an Eagle scout, they will note talk about their Eagle rank.  They will go on and on about Philmont/Northern Tier/canoe trips.....

My son will talk your ear off about World Jamboree, Sea Base, the canoe trip on the Buffalo river.  But if you ask him about Eagle rank (he is almost done) he we clam up and say that is the boring stuff.

just my 2 cents

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4 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

I've been thru dozens.  At least 20+.  Sometimes it was monthly.  Each was half recognition and half promotion.  It gets old.

 

I hope they at least bought cake for the scouts 🙂  That's a lot of cake.  Cake makes everything better

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44 minutes ago, MattR said:

Time for a rant. This has nothing to do with how people are arguing about this topic. That part is fine. However, ...

Between this thread and the eagle at 12 thread, is there any wonder that scouting does not interest youth? It looks like this program is nothing without recognition. When my son was in soccer the entire recognition for everyone, youth and adults, was at the end of the season, at a barbecue. It lasted maybe 15 minutes. The coach talked about each kid. Some parent thanked all the adults that helped out. Then dessert was served. Done. The program, the reason why kids wanted to be there, was the games. There were no worries about adults making it all about them. No worries about youth progressing too fast. No eagle. No knots. No one and done. No FOS. No BORs. No round table. No OA. No Scoutbook. Certainly no adult recognition dinners. I just get the feeling that all these sources of argument are nothing but contraptions that adults created so they could feel important.

Maybe the program shouldn't be so important. Maybe all the shiny objects should be thrown out so the kids can just have fun. The scouts need places to camp and adults that know how to teach skills. That's it. It's a lot like soccer. If it doesn't support that then chuck it. If people can't support that then they are no longer needed.

Point well taken.

At the scout level just about all of this adult should be transparent - knots, FOS, round table, adult recognition dinners, Wood Badge, etc..  If it isn't, then we're doing it wrong. We're often quick to deride these things - but they really should frankly by inconsequential to the Scouts.

To me the point is - let the program be the program.  If individuals make mistakes, correct them.  But I would encourage people to take a step back and let the program breathe.  Keep it simple, make it fun.

 

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43 minutes ago, MattR said:

It looks like his program is nothing without recognition. ... soccer the entire recognition for everyone, youth and adults, was at the end of the season, at a barbecue. It lasted maybe 15 minutes. The coach talked about each kid. Some parent thanked all the adults that helped out. Then dessert was served. Done. The program, the reason why kids wanted to be there, was the games. There were no worries about adults making it all about them. No worries about youth progressing too fast. No eagle. No knots. No one and done. No FOS. No BORs. No round table. No OA. No Scoutbook. Certainly no adult recognition dinners. I just get the feeling that all these sources of argument are nothing but contraptions that adults created so they could feel important.

Maybe the program shouldn't be so important. Maybe all the shiny objects should be thrown out so the kids can just have fun. The scouts need places to camp and adults that know how to teach skills. That's it. It's a lot like soccer. If it doesn't support that then chuck it. If people can't support that then they are no longer needed.

I HUGELY AGREE !!!!   Program comes first, second and third.  Scouts want to be doing things.  They crave it.  From adult leader view, it builds character, develops friendships and gives them great stories to tell.   

IMHO ... Forcus your energy on getting your scouts out having adventures, activities, doing things, building friendships.  A little energy needs to be on troop structure, PLCs, etc.  You must follow GTSS.  Beyond that, the vast majority of your energy should be on getting the scouts out doing things and then getting out of their way.

 

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16 hours ago, fred8033 said:

 

Here's my ideal script recognition script:  "Next up:  Woodbadge ticket completions.   Would the following individuals stand up.  Troop 603 Assistant scoutmaster Felix Unger.   Pack 801 cubmaster P.W.  Herman.   These individuals have completed their Woodbadge tickets and have received their beads.  Let's have a round of applause."   ... Done ...

I agree. Being one of those beaded, that part was left up to one of the WB staff who was on the call. For us, this is once a year, not a monthly event either. I might go a little longer to explain what WB is, as we do with other awards, but that would only add about a paragraph. 

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15 hours ago, DuctTape said:

If Woodbadge is just another training as has been stated numerous times, why is there any ceremony for completing it? Completion of IOLS does not necessitate a ceremony. Completing a training is not an award.

To be fair, WB is the internationally recognized culmination of adult leader training - even though in most other countries I gather it is more like getting your Scouter's Key than the way we do it. I think it is worthy of recognition with some explanation - it's not comparable to just getting position trained or the Den Leader award or something. 

But less is more. 

These days, most adult recognition is a short blurb on the council or district Facebook group: "Congrats to Protoclete, LoneScout, and DuctTape for earning their Super Scouter Award this year." (insert pic of square knot). 

It is nice to be able to do a little better than that as a thank you!

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9 hours ago, ParkMan said:

Can we please stop taking every opportunity that arises to complain about those Wood Badgers who go over the top.  The continued negativity towards the program adds up.  

I don't mind the comments about wood badge, positive or negative, if they are kept in the wood badge forum.  We have a forum for that.  Let's keep the critters in their cage.

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Again thank! Please check this -

What I believe that you told me:

1)   Select a clear, thought out date and promote the heck out of the coming event

2)   Consider combining with another regular scouting event

3)   Strive for fun & fellowship; short and simple. Involve the families or whole units

4)   Speaker, if any, relevant, focused, inspiring and engaging

5)   Presentations – short, meaningful with pictures. “You did something notable!”

Other considerations: We work for smiles. Good food, competing program, slideshow and other visuals. Breakfast? A picnic with scouts cooking the meal?  

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3 hours ago, wearrepair said:

 

2)   Consider combining with another regular scouting event

 

But please don't combine it with a mandatory meeting.  Also, please notify people in advance that it will be a part of the event so that the people who don't want to attend will have the choice to opt out.  

If youth members are present, OA should count it as part of their ordeal.

 

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