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37 minutes ago, David CO said:

Can't be done.  Adult awards are given for only one reason. It is to butter people up so that they will make larger donations.  An adult award is nothing more than a solicitation.  

 

Depends upon the Scout Exec. I know of one long time volunteer who was passed over for the Silver Beaver because of lack of FOS contributions by several SEs. Finally we got a decent SE, and his name sailed through. In fact the committee that selected him thought he had it already since he has been a force of Scouting in the council for over 50 year by the time he received it. And one of those on the committee worked with him as his CIT for two summers.

 

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We had a WB beading ceremony (??) that was done at a troop meeting.  Ran, I kid you not, 45 minutes.  I too felt like we were hostages.   Most leaders input was "and that's why I will never go to WB"

Time for a rant. This has nothing to do with how people are arguing about this topic. That part is fine. However, ... Between this thread and the eagle at 12 thread, is there any wonder that scou

(pre-covid) I already donate a dozen plus hours a week.  Every time I sign up for an "away from home" activity, it affects my marriage and family.  So when I can, I prioritize wife and kids and look f

30 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

why is there any ceremony for completing it?

As I understand it, once upon a time Woodbadge was the premier training, limited only to Scoutmasters, and a Really Big Deal(tm)

Today, it is simply training open to any registered BSA adult.

Some/Most Woodbadge people I know treat it as a cool, or neat, or interesting training program.

SOME I repeat SOME are part of the Really Big Deal Cult and treat it as if they are part of a semi-secret fraternity.

I have never taken Woodbadge and given the small but VERY loud and vocal minority that make it a part of the Really Big Deal Cult I probably won't. I don't need to get wrapped up in that stuff.

 

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1 minute ago, CynicalScouter said:

As I understand it, once upon a time Woodbadge was the premier training, limited only to Scoutmasters, and a Really Big Deal(tm)

Today, it is simply training open to any registered BSA adult.

Some/Most Woodbadge people I know treat it as a cool, or neat, or interesting training program.

SOME I repeat SOME are part of the Really Big Deal Cult and treat it as if they are part of a semi-secret fraternity.

 

IMHO you are correct.  And Tickets like Eagle Projects have become more and more watered down over time.  Some take it seriously, others take it to say that they have taken it.  I know someone who was a WB course director and he was graded on how many completed their tickets by the time the 18 months were up.  And was pressured by other volunteers to lower standards on the tickets that people have.

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6 minutes ago, mashmaster said:

  And was pressured by other volunteers to lower standards on the tickets that people have.

I think there's two challenges here:

1) The watering down of the program. Having never taken it in any of its iterations, I cannot comment.

2) The Really Big Deal Cult. This manifests as a) acting as of they were elites/putting on airs/talking down to other Scouters (rare, I saw this only once personally, but I know it is a concern) or b) the cult of constant reference. I don't care what your critter is or was. I'm sorry, I really don't. And all that kind of referencing and chanting and singing and beading ceremonies that cut into scout time does is to send an "us cool kids club" message that you aren't part of the "cool kids".

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21 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

As I understand it, once upon a time Woodbadge was the premier training, limited only to Scoutmasters, and a Really Big Deal(tm)

 Yes, it was the premier training, and to be invited was indeed a BIG deal. Heck I received an invitation to attend, and I was flabbergasted to be invited.

21 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Today, it is simply training open to any registered BSA adult.

Sad but true. I do not know about the Cub Scout Trainer Woodbadge, but for Boy Scout WB, you had to have completed basic training, and have 2 years tenure. Now I have seen folks who have less than a year in, and have not completed their basic training yet, go to it.

21 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Some/Most Woodbadge people I know treat it as a cool, or neat, or interesting training program.

SOME I repeat SOME are part of the Really Big Deal Cult and treat it as if they are part of a semi-secret fraternity.

Yes, some folks do indeed go overboard. And some think if you have not done WB, you don't know squat.

16 minutes ago, mashmaster said:

IMHO you are correct.  And Tickets like Eagle Projects have become more and more watered down over time.  Some take it seriously, others take it to say that they have taken it.  I know someone who was a WB course director and he was graded on how many completed their tickets by the time the 18 months were up.  And was pressured by other volunteers to lower standards on the tickets that people have.

So true. I remember some of the ticket items my older friends did back in the day. They were major activities, and you had a little longer to complete them. Then I hear about some of the tickets today, and can see the decline. One ticket I vividly remember is Someone promoting WB at RT. Yes that was a ticket item of his.

 

9 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

 

2) The Really Big Deal Cult. This manifests as a) acting as of they were elites/putting on airs/talking down to other Scouters (rare, I saw this only once personally, but I know it is a concern) or b) the cult of constant reference. I don't care what your critter is or was. I'm sorry, I really don't. And all that kind of referencing and chanting and singing and beading ceremonies that cut into scout time does is to send an "us cool kids club" message that you aren't part of the "cool kids".

  Some of the best Scouters I know have either never taken WB, or never completed their ticket.

 

Best Beading ceremony I saw was at an OA event. Diehard Arrowman  completed WB and wanted it done at a lodge event. Less 5 minutes, if that.  Axe in Log,  Notification he completed WB, received necker, woggle, beads, and certificate presented. He thanked all the Arrowman who helped him and was done. Short, sweet, and tyo the point.

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5 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

I think there's two challenges here:

1) The watering down of the program. Having never taken it in any of its iterations, I cannot comment.

2) The Really Big Deal Cult. This manifests as a) acting as of they were elites/putting on airs/talking down to other Scouters (rare, I saw this only once personally, but I know it is a concern) or b) the cult of constant reference. I don't care what your critter is or was. I'm sorry, I really don't. And all that kind of referencing and chanting and singing and beading ceremonies that cut into scout time does is to send an "us cool kids club" message that you aren't part of the "cool kids".

<Ramble On>

Yeah, I get the Cult reference.  There is a lot of it.  It is comparable to Eagle as well.  There are a lot of great scouts that never got to the Eagle rank but yet are phenomenal scouts.  Conversely, there are a lot of Eagle scouts that aren't.  Advancement is just one of the methods.

The critters are like astrological signs, you are assigned it randomly.  I understand while in the course why you adopt your critter just like you are supposed to adopt your patrol name.  But afterwards...... who cares.

I do think that Wood Badge is good training, but there are a lot of good training courses in Scouting.  I have taken Woodbadge, Seabadge, Poweder Horn, IOLS, OWLS, WFA, IOWLS, Baloo, US Archery, NRA Range Safety, and others.  All were good and bad for their purpose.  Not one of them should be considered the best or the premiere training.  

<Ramble Off>

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You guys kill me.  Can we not miss an opportunity to bash Wood Badge?

Wood Badge has beading ceremonies for one reason - tradition.  There have been beading ceremonies for years now and so it's just part of what happens.

Wood Badge has the unique combination of a lot of history, takes a lot of effort to complete, and has some unique bling.  Most beading ceremonies I've attended give a short overview of Wood Badge, what the person did, and then simply give a overview of the bling, it's significance, and then present it.  

Most beading ceremonies I've seen at a unit level are typically about 10 minutes.  They happen once every few years.  Often a bunch of experienced Scouters show up and present the beads.  It makes for something of a unusual and notable occurrence.  In my son's time in Cub Scouts, we saw two beadings.  No one complained.

 

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32 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

You guys kill me.  Can we not miss an opportunity to bash Wood Badge?

 

 

We aren't bashing Wood Badge, we are bashing the attitudes SOME people have and protray about it.

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41 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

You guys kill me.  Can we not miss an opportunity to bash Wood Badge?

Nope. I am not bashing Wood Badge. As I said, I never took the program, so I don't know.

What I am "bashing" is The Really Big Deal Cult.

The one instance I personally saw was an ASM who had been in scouts for years (Den Leader, Cub Master, ASM) and a parent who had 6 month prior become SM (because NO ONE ELSE WANTED IT, including this Wood Badge ASM) and had no role when the son was in Cub Scouts.

There was, disagreement shall we say, over the SM and his control over the SPL meetings. The ASM took it to the point of sending an email to the entire committee indicating he wanted to take over as SM and listing his Scouting pedigree. The committee chair was dumbfounded but decided the way to head it off was to let the ASM come to committee and vent his spleen.

The ASM sat there and "instructed" the committee (including 3 Eagles) what the SM should be doing and why it was wrong and why he should be in charge. When one of the committee members pushed back he literally held up his beads, rubbed them, and said "I know what I am talking about." Well, that was the ball game there. That was his (and his fellow Wood Badge buddy/ASM) last night in the troop.

So sorry, I am not a fan of Wood Badge is Wood Badge translates into "I am better than you."

That said, I recognize not all Wood Badge people act like this. But they certainly embrace the cult of critters and talking amongst themselves and acting like there a club-within-a-club and if you are not part of the "club" then...oh well.

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I am sure you've got your reasons for beating up on Wood Badge.  As someone who is not anti-Wood Badge, I perceive the frequency of such comments as being rooted in simply a dislike of the program.

To use a similar analogy.  I'm someone who will never be able to attend a week long resident camp.  As such, I will never be a member of the OA.  Yet, I hear about the OA constantly.  OA events, OA inductions, OA campfires, OA ceremonies, OA drumming circles, and the list goes on.  I won't ever be eligible to be part of that restrictive club.  Yet, I've never once thought abut complaining about the OA, is practices, or what it does.  I've never complained about troop events that we've had to cancel because the Scouts and leaders had to run off to an OA event.  There are buildings and areas at our camp that I will never be able to leverage because they belong to the OA.  It's a restrictive club that I won't ever be invited to join.  Yet, I don't look for opportunities to complain about the Big Deal that is the OA.  I don't complain about the conversations that they have or events that they do.  It just is what it is.

 

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"That said, I recognize not all Wood Badge people act like this. But they certainly embrace the cult of critters and talking amongst themselves and acting like there a club-within-a-club and if you are not part of the "club" then...oh well."

Yes, "Oh well."  Personally, I am Schizophrenic, critter-wise, being a bear, owl, beaver, Eagle.  And it is a "club within a club" - a club that aims tohave every Scouter as a member.

A "cult" may bean something other than what it often means, so you get a pass on that shot at every Wood Badger who ever was, good, bad , or indifferent.

There are certainly  those that reduce all of Scouting to Wood Badge. just as there are those who are very inpressd with themselves because they got thier "beads."   If that is who you mean by "they," well and good.  Otherwise,  judging an entire group of tens of thousands to have the same set of characteristics that you dislike has a name, and its not firendly, courteous, or kind.  

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1 hour ago, ParkMan said:

As such, I will never be a member of the OA

Ok, but there's a giant difference between OA and Wood Badge and The Really Big Deal Cult mentality.

OA requires (at a minimum) that you a) meet certain minimums and b) gain the approval and vote of your fellow scouts or scouters. We can talk about whether those elections are popularity contests or whatever, but OA is an HONOR society. If a member of OA struts or puts on airs, I may not like that either, but they "earned" it. They were elected to that place of honor. They are expected (I am not OA, so if I get it wrong, sorry) to continue active acts of service. OK. I can choke that down. It's an honor/service society.

Wood Badge is you a) paying some money b) taking some courses c) overnight a few nights and d) completing some tasks. That's not an honor society. It is a 4-day corporate "leadership" conference without the minibars. At least, I hope without the minibars. Again, never took Wood Badge.

As I understand Wood Badge back-in-the-day was by invitation, today it is not. There's no selectivity. It's pay-to-play.

When Wood Badge people strut around because they took the equivalent of a week long leadership course and use that as the basis for treating other scouters as less-thans, it is an absurdity.

ADD to that the other cult-like actions and activities, and it becomes inane if not insane.

I get it, this is not ALL Wood Badge folks. But it is enough such that it is a known phenomena.

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3 minutes ago, TAHAWK said:

just as there are those who are very inpressd with themselves because they got thier "beads."   If that is who you mean by "they," well and good.

Yes. As I said at the start. There are two kinds of Wood Badgers I've seen.
 

Quote

Some/Most Woodbadge people I know treat it as a cool, or neat, or interesting training program.

SOME I repeat SOME are part of the Really Big Deal Cult and treat it as if they are part of a semi-secret fraternity.

I have no problem with those in category 1. I have seen how those in category 2 speak down to others while literally rubbing their beads. As if that made them "better".

Edited by CynicalScouter
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