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Update on new Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion MB


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Just now, InquisitiveScouter said:

That it affects anyone negatively, I believe, was never the intent.  I'm with you...build a better mousetrap, but don't call it racism.

And if the end result is that the people most effected or disproportionately affected are minorities, still not racism?

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I have major issues with BSA actively entering the political arena.  By mentioning B. Taylor, they have gone way beyond selling war bonds and into anti-police propaganda.  That is something that they

Likewise. Which is all I'm looking for. But by the chosen phrasing, I fear that this is NOT what we are seeing. If "white privilege"/"check your privilege" or "systemic racism" is brought up

Let's start with the "equity" portion. Equity is an impossible goal to achieve. No matter how we strive we will never achieve equal outcomes. The goal of "equity" is a myth, an impossible achieveme

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1 minute ago, CynicalScouter said:

And if the end result is that the people most effected or disproportionately affected are minorities, still not racism?

No, and that is @elitts point, as I see it.  It results in a disadvantage to people in an economic stratum, and is, therefore, not racism.

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4 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

No, and that is @elitts point, as I see it.  It results in a disadvantage to people in an economic stratum, and is, therefore, not racism.

To be sure, there is a link between widespread racism in the past and the poverty of non-whites, specifically in the US. There is also racism now, but seems to be attributed to "them" and "they" and "the system" etc. rather than specific culprits, such as specific public officials making specific laws targetted at specific groups , well studied and known to cause economic degeneration. But that isn't included in DEI.

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21 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

And if the end result is that the people most effected or disproportionately affected are minorities, still not racism?

Not necessarily.  Personally, I favor using a fairly strict application of definitions because I think maintaining gradations is important for understanding problems.  Neighborhood red-lining against minorities and 25% down-payment requirements for mortgages will both have the effect of keeping minorities out of suburban neighborhoods, but one policy is based upon racism and the other is de facto discrimination from lack of forethought.  The distinction is important because the approaches to solving the problems are completely different.

However, I can understand why the perspective of a minority may well be different when talking about the whole scope of "baked in" discriminatory problems within our existing systems.  I imagine at some point you have to look at everything and say "How can all of these different policies be disproportionately impacting me and my family and friends unless it's on purpose?".

In the broader sense, my biggest issue with the expanded use of the terms "racism" and "racist" is that as soon as you use that terminology you immediately change any discussion about fixing a problem into a discussion about the intent behind the existing system.  Charged language may be useful as a rallying cry or to generate support, but it definitely isn't useful when attempting to solve problems.

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1 hour ago, Bowsprit said:

I respectfully disagree, based on many metrics, including the current success rates of boys vs girls in school at all ages, the 60:40 college graduation rate favoring females, and the disproportionately higher rate of suicide for boys. I also don't believe the "short" camping period has a relationship with the retention quality of what is being taught at those camps.

I agree with you, and for a different reason than studies. My experience of raising boys and girls and working with boys and girls has proven to me that boys learn differently than girls. They  have different motivations for when and how they learn. They have different speeds or maturity for learning the same subjects. I could even predict the outcome of gender groups. 

I remember the leaders who jumped on this forum to brag about their girls were more advanced at learning scout skills than boys. Yep, girls learn skills more by instruction than boys who do better by application. Girls are more organized, which lends better for planning. But boys are more creative and are better at applying the skills. 

Now, the thought is that the mix would complement and advance the skills of the other gender, but I find that adults instead pit the genders against each other, like the adults who jumped on the forum to brag about their girls. Hard to beat nature of youth and adults.

Barry

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On 1/6/2021 at 9:16 AM, Bowsprit said:

I respectfully disagree, based on many metrics, including the current success rates of boys vs girls in school at all ages, the 60:40 college graduation rate favoring females, ...

@Bowsprit, you've been lied to. But, you're not the first one ...

Fact: More boys (in raw #s or percentage of adult males) are entering college than ever before in our Nation's history, more are completing college, more are going on to advanced degrees. We could credit many things (the GI bill for one), and one institution would be the coeducational system allows boys and girls to be inspired by the achievements of the opposite sex.

In a decade, the rates of suicide have doubled for females (tripled for black and Hispanic females), they have less than doubled for males (and increased marginally for black and Hispanic males), but for a long time males have had a higher rate than females. Females, on the other hand, have had higher rates of self-mutilation.

I have not seen any studies of fire/shelter building skills between resident vs. non-resident camp. All I know, from observing the kids in my family, if you need a fire started fast ... ask the Ugandan niece who lived the bush life for 9 years. Sure, it's a sample of one. But, most education research -- especially that of differentials -- is on skills taught in a classroom. I have none that discusses learning differentials in skills taught in the process of communal life.

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8 minutes ago, qwazse said:

@Bowsprit, you've been lied to. But, you're not the first one ...

Fact: More boys (in raw #s or percentage of adult males) are entering college than ever before in our Nation's history, more are completing college, more are going on to advanced degrees. We could credit many things (the GI bill for one), and one institution would be the coeducational system allows boys and girls to be inspired by the achievements of the opposite sex.

In a decade, the rates of suicide have doubled for females (tripled for black and Hispanic females), they have less than doubled for males (and increased marginally for black and Hispanic males), but for a long time males have had a higher rate than females. Females, on the other hand, have had higher rates of self-mutilation.

I have not seen any studies of fire/shelter building skills between resident vs. non-resident camp. All I know, from observing the kids in my family, if you need a fire started fast ... ask the Ugandan niece who lived the bush life for 9 years. Sure, it's a sample of one. But, most education research -- especially that of differentials -- is on skills taught in a classroom. I have none that discusses learning differentials in skills taught in the process of communal life.

You are not going to convince me with cherry picked stats like raw numbers, esp. when the population itself has grown considerably... And ultimately there remains a 60:40 graduation gap favoring females that relates more to the question at hand than simply saying "more boys than ever attend college".

Where raw numbers do count is number of suicides. Girl suicide growth is associated with social media addiction, not school. Boy suicide growth is associated with feelings of disenfranchisement in the world at large, which comes from cultural shifts that present themselves most accutely to the age we are talking about, in school.

So no, I have not "been lied to".

Edited by Bowsprit
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National Center for Education Statistics  data thru 2018...

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d19/tables/dt19_302.10.asp?current=yes

Females completing HS:  1.598M, of which, 45.2% go on to a 4-year institution, so overall, 772.3K

Males: 1.614M, of which, 42.0% go on to a 4-year....so overall, 667.9K

So female % of total enrollees is 53.6%

Male % of enrollees is 46.4%

Close approximation of enrollees, female to male is 55:45

Now I'm off to find graduation rates...

 

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After a fifteen minute search and read, cannot find raw numbers of female/male college grads anywhere...only percentages within their own cohorts...not helpful.

Sorry...spent enough time down the rabbit hole...anyone else find data??

Edited by InquisitiveScouter
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1 minute ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

After a fifteen minute search and read, cannot find raw numbers of female/male college grads anywhere...only percentages within their own cohorts...not helpful.

Sorry...spent enough time down the rabbit hole...anyone else find data??

No, but your enrollment numbers tell the same story. That's a 9 percent gap, before actually doing any higher schooling. It was 50/50 for a long time, and heavily weighted male prior to that for well known reasons of cultural disuasion for girls to attend college.

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6 minutes ago, Bowsprit said:

No, but your enrollment numbers tell the same story. That's a 9 percent gap, before actually doing any higher schooling. It was 50/50 for a long time, and heavily weighted male prior to that for well known reasons of cultural disuasion for girls to attend college.

These seem to support your numbers...

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/11/gender-education-gap/546677/

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/08/why-men-are-the-new-college-minority/536103/

Side note...In 1984, I went to a four year school  (enrollment about 15K students) that was traditionally a teacher's college...female to male ratio was 3:1.  I really enjoyed my college years ;)

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Posted (edited)
Through unofficial channels.
Quote
DEI Merit Badge Update...
We have put a pause on the launch of the DEI merit badge, communication will be sent to the Scout Executive shortly.
Garfield S. Murden | National Director, Scouts BSA
BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA
Pilots & Program Development
 
Edited by CynicalScouter
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29 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Side note...In 1984, I went to a four year school  (enrollment about 15K students) that was traditionally a teacher's college...female to male ratio was 3:1.  I really enjoyed my college years ;)

Remimds me of another metric or two.

Boys and young men are measurably less interested in dating than they ever used to be. And not by a little bit.

Girls are increasingly frustrated with the difficulty in finding a respectful and responsible boy to date. They seem to have the most consistent luck... at all boys schools.

That's from Dr. Leonard Sax

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42 minutes ago, Bowsprit said:

Boys and young men are measurably less interested in dating than they ever used to be. And not by a little bit.

The good news with that is that teen pregnancy is down.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/08/02/why-is-the-teen-birth-rate-falling/

I think the internet and video gaming has a role to play in that, as well.

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1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

These seem to support your numbers...

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/11/gender-education-gap/546677/

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/08/why-men-are-the-new-college-minority/536103/

Side note...In 1984, I went to a four year school  (enrollment about 15K students) that was traditionally a teacher's college...female to male ratio was 3:1.  I really enjoyed my college years ;)

They support my statement. More numbers of, and a higher percentage of, young men than ever before in our nation's history are enrolling in college, graduating from college, and getting advanced degrees. Bonus: their sisters, girlfriends, and wives are enrolling as well. Simply put, higher education has never been better for guys of any race/class.

Regarding equity, minorities are still not entering academia at a desirable rate. That's a disparity creating disparities that are hard to overcome via trades. My hope is that new media will be able to help minorities sharpen their business acumen so that they and their children may enroll later, and possibly with less debt.

Sadly, fewer young men know how to solder copper pipe. But I'm not blaming girls. I'm blaming Sharkbites.

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