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Cub Scout Pack runs a Shooting Sports Day

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On 11/5/2020 at 1:06 PM, SSScout said:

Any shooting event must have a BSA (at least) trained RSO (me), and be held on Council approved range and NOT be limited to only your own Troop or Pack. 

That is not the “at least” per the current shooting sports regulation. There must be 2 different NRA trained people: the RSO and an NRA rifle instructor (they must not be the same person). This is different than camp (more stringent) and more than required in the past. Check out the current guide. It could be limited to a troop, but must be a council event to include cubs. Councils could have more stringent rules, but not less. 

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6 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

That is not the “at least” per the current shooting sports regulation. There must be 2 different NRA trained people: the RSO and an NRA rifle instructor (they must not be the same person). This is different than camp (more stringent) and more than required in the past. Check out the current guide. It could be limited to a troop, but must be a council event to include cubs. Councils could have more stringent rules, but not less. 

??  Requirements have been changed to require a NRA rifle instructor to open a BB-Gun range or archery range ??   Cubs are not allowed to shoot riffles.  Or are we mixing Cub and Boy Scout requirements? 

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18 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

... There must be 2 different NRA trained people: the RSO and an NRA rifle instructor (they must not be the same person). This is different than camp (more stringent) and more than required in the past. Check out the current guide. ...

 

12 hours ago, fred8033 said:

??  Requirements have been changed to require a NRA rifle instructor to open a BB-Gun range or archery range ??  ...

From current cub-specific requirements (https://i9peu1ikn3a16vg4e45rqi17-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/510-322_WEB.pdf😞

Quote

All shooting ranges in the Cub Scout program must be supervised by a qualified range master who is at least 18 years of age and meets the minimum requirements.

Later in the document it makes clear that a range is to be opened by a "qualified BSA-certified range master." There's probably fine print elsewhere about what would lead BSA to certify that person, but the cub-specific document makes clear that it would be only one person.

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54 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Later in the document it makes clear that a range is to be opened by a "qualified BSA-certified range master."

Yep.  That's been my understanding too.  It's when opening a riffle range or a shot gun range that you need an RSO and a NRA riffle instructor.  

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5 hours ago, qwazse said:

There's probably fine print elsewhere about what would lead BSA to certify that person, but the cub-specific document makes clear that it would be only one person.

I hate not being at my PC as such research is harder. So, sorry I was vague. I should just hold back from responding when there needs to be a technical answer until I have the info ready. So, yes, there must be two separate NRA certified people. Can't just have one person (like in the past). 

https://www.scouting.org/outdoor-programs/shooting-sports/shooting-faq/

Q: What type of training do I need to help my Scout troop take youth to a shooting day at a local range or at our Scout camp? 
A: You need to be an NRA certified instructor in the discipline with which you plan to help. NRA certifications in rifle, pistol, shotgun, or muzzle loading rifle, or NRA shotgun coach or rifle coach would be necessary. You must also have an NRA range safety officer certification for the person who is running the range. There must be two separate people running your event. The trainer is an NRA certified training counselor. You can find this person in your local council or by calling the NRA. You can also find more information in the new Shooting Sports Manual in the sections regarding training.

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3 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

I hate not being at my PC as such research is harder. So, sorry I was vague. I should just hold back from responding when there needs to be a technical answer until I have the info ready. So, yes, there must be two separate NRA certified people. Can't just have one person (like in the past). 

https://www.scouting.org/outdoor-programs/shooting-sports/shooting-faq/

Q: What type of training do I need to help my Scout troop take youth to a shooting day at a local range or at our Scout camp? 
A: You need to be an NRA certified instructor in the discipline with which you plan to help. NRA certifications in rifle, pistol, shotgun, or muzzle loading rifle, or NRA shotgun coach or rifle coach would be necessary. You must also have an NRA range safety officer certification for the person who is running the range. There must be two separate people running your event. The trainer is an NRA certified training counselor. You can find this person in your local council or by calling the NRA. You can also find more information in the new Shooting Sports Manual in the sections regarding training.

There's confusion between "troops" and "packs".  You quoted a question about "troops".  Packs = Cub Scouts (k-5 grades).  Troops = Scouts (11-18 ages).  Crews get mostly lumped with troops for rules, mostly.

Packs (aka cub scouts) can shoot BB guns, archery, air pellet (webelos) and wrist rockets (sling shoots).  Cub shooting ranges only need a BSA certified range master.

Troops shoot riffles and shot-guns.  Crews can shoot pistols.  Rifle and shot gun ranges require a NRA skilled instructor and a NRA RSO.  I don't know all the ins-and-outs of those certifications.  

Page 67 of the Shooting Sports Manual you linked has the answer.  

Edited by fred8033

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3 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

... as such research ...

Your icon of "Leadership Corps" made me read up on BSA's leadership corps concept from 1972-89.  Now that I've read, I can see local troops that still implement that concept.  It fills in a hole on why I always wondered their troops did things different than how I had been taught.  But I've been taught based on later BSA writings and earlier intentions.  I was never introduced to the "Leadership Corps" concept.  

Interesting.  Leadership Corps essentially is like a patrol of troop guides that helps the troop function.  It addresses the older boy problem, provides benefits but also introduces some other issues.  Interesting.  

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