Jump to content
RememberSchiff

Cub Scout Pack runs a Shooting Sports Day

Recommended Posts

It is against the G2SS foe a cub pack to run a shooting sports activity with BB guns or greater. So, this seems to all be in violation, assuming it is what it says it is. 
 

just sayin’

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

It is against the G2SS foe a cub pack to run a shooting sports activity with BB guns or greater. So, this seems to all be in violation, assuming it is what it says it is. 
 

just sayin’

I was wondering about that too.  After two reads, I found the quote:

Quote

were very fortunate to be able to bring it here and have this event approved, so they can earn their shooting sports awards.

Sounds like their council shooting sports committee approved it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, walk in the woods said:

 

I suspect there were well trained RSOs at Ft. Leavenworth. 

 

Maybe not trained in BSA policy. Shooting sports is not allowed to be a Pack activity, as this one is described as. It can only be a district or council activity. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

Maybe not trained in BSA policy. Shooting sports is not allowed to be a Pack activity, as this one is described as. It can only be a district or council activity. 

I suspect they conducted a "District event" or "Council event" where the invitations were extended to only 1 Pack.

OR

The interpreted "District event" or "Council event" as "District/Council APPROVED event"

 

Edited by CynicalScouter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/24/2020 at 11:49 AM, mrjohns2 said:

Maybe not trained in BSA policy. Shooting sports is not allowed to be a Pack activity, as this one is described as. It can only be a district or council activity. 

G2SS policy was meant to prevent stupid, which happens fast. It happens real fast in units that cut corners, of which not seeking guidance from council is a hallmark. This pack sought guidance because they were in the unique situation of available qualified supervision but lack of access to other district/council wide events:

Quote

A lot of the Scouts, because of time or current travel restrictions, weren’t going to be able to go to some of the larger district events, so we were very fortunate to be able to bring it here and have this event approved, so they can earn their shooting sports awards.

In other words, they were in full compliance with the very significant, but often ignored, page 1 of G2SS. Specifically this sentence:

Quote

... Unit leaders are expected to review the additional reference material cited prior to conducting such activities. ...

Why review reference material when “such activities” are said to be disallowed by the pack? Well, first is to understand why packs aren’t allowed to have their own events. Second is to understand what goes into holding a district event according NCAP standards and the Shooting Sports Manual.

When a group of scouters can convince their SE that they can meet and exceed NCAP standards and the council would not otherwise be providing those same standards to those particular scouts, councils will try to work with those scouters.

Otherwise we risk cubs and parents doing these activities on their own. Safety lectures (the most important part, I felt, for my kids to hear) will be missed, and bad things will happen.

In other words, there’s the Guide to Safe Scouting and there’s actually scouting safely. We want the former to enable, not impede, the latter.

Edited by qwazse
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, qwazse said:

When a group of scouters can convince their SE that they can meet and exceed NCAP standards and the council would not otherwise be providing those same standards to those particular scouts, councils will try to work with those scouters.

I hope that is what happened in this case. 

I know for a fact the cubs would have loved it. I just wish more packs would be allowed to do this via a council shooting sports committee. The way it is worded, though, is don't even ask. I don't like "good old boy networks" where the rules say one thing, but you can workout some back deal.

Edited by mrjohns2
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

I hope that is what happened in this case. 

I know for a fact the cubs would have loved it. I just wish more packs would be allowed to do this via a council shooting sports committee. The way it is worded, though, is don't even ask. I don't like "good old boy networks" where the rules say one thing, but you can workout some back deal.

The way I see it, if National is allowing online outdoor training now, changes to advancement so that virtual camping is allowed for ranks AND MBs, changes to OA eligibility to include virtual camping, etc, then everything is on the table due to COVID.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/24/2020 at 11:12 AM, CynicalScouter said:

I suspect they conducted a "District event" or "Council event" where the invitations were extended to only 1 Pack.

OR

The interpreted "District event" or "Council event" as "District/Council APPROVED event"

 

This is how our council trained us.  When I received my BSA shooting sports training (now 10+ years ago ... I have to remember things right), we effectively became council volunteers.  This allowed us to open ranges just for our pack.  I know another trainer created a range for temporary use per the BSA shooting sports manual for his pack.  But, he was functioning as a council / district representative at that point and having an event just for just his pack.  

I remember being invited multiple times to help district / council similar events. 

Edited by fred8033
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

This is how our council trained us.  When I received my BSA shooting sports training (now 10+ years ago ... I have to remember things right), we effectively became council volunteers.  This allowed us to open ranges just for our pack.  I know another trainer created a range for temporary use per the BSA shooting sports manual for his pack.  But, he was functioning as a council / district representative at that point and having an event just for just his pack.  

I remember being invited multiple times to help district / council similar events. 

We some of us asked about this, we were told  "NO!" (emphasis in original) by the council. Day camps, council family camps, and Webeloree were our events.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep. Any shooting event must have a BSA (at least) trained RSO (me), and be held on Council approved range and NOT be limited to only your own Troop or Pack.   We often fulfilled these by holding a Unit (!) event on a Council camp property (sometimes not the home council)  and actively inviting other units to participate. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Welcome to scouting in the military.  Like it or not, BSA extends some unofficial leeway to the Scouting programs chartered to military organizations.  One could say that it was open to any Pack, as long as they could attend.  It looks like it was held on Ft. Leavenworth.  Not sure of their present requirements, but Fort Bragg was not allowing anyone on-post who didn't have a mission essential need to be there.  If the post only has one Pack, then that's the only one that will be attending.   

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/5/2020 at 2:06 PM, SSScout said:

Yep. Any shooting event must have a BSA (at least) trained RSO (me), and be held on Council approved range and NOT be limited to only your own Troop or Pack.   We often fulfilled these by holding a Unit (!) event on a Council camp property (sometimes not the home council)  and actively inviting other units to participate. 

Our council routinely has Packs come to the council camp where they can have a shooting sports day just for their unit. We will have BSA RSOs there to run the range, but the attending Pack does not have to invite nor include other units, at least at our council camp.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/5/2020 at 1:38 PM, Armymutt said:

Welcome to scouting in the military.  Like it or not, BSA extends some unofficial leeway to the Scouting programs chartered to military organizations. 

The BSA does not, but your council may. It he council could easily say that this is a council event. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...