Son starting Lions

[heres_a_llama 3]

2 hours ago, SemperParatus said:

Welcome.

My advice would be find another activity for your son.  Scouting is in a death spiral.

I believe in the mission of scouting and want my kids to participate. We are Jewish and many of the Scouts BSA alternatives are either not a good fit for us (Pioneer, Trail Life USA, Awanas, CotF, Faith-Based Boys, Royal Ambassadors, Spiral Scouts, etc) or not in our area (Baden Powell). What would you recommend we do? 

[yknot 1338]

2 hours ago, heres_a_llama said:

I believe in the mission of scouting and want my kids to participate. We are Jewish and many of the Scouts BSA alternatives are either not a good fit for us (Pioneer, Trail Life USA, Awanas, CotF, Faith-Based Boys, Royal Ambassadors, Spiral Scouts, etc) or not in our area (Baden Powell). What would you recommend we do? 

Join Scouts. It's really fun, especially for the little guys. I was not a personal fan of adding the Lion year but I know many people who love it. Even if scouts does close up shop, my philosophy would be not to worry about it and instead enjoy it while you can. And if it does fold, there are a lot of nature centers, watershed associations, and parks that run their own junior ranger type programs. I've worked with several so I know they are out there. 

[qwazse 4342]

@heres_a_llama, don’t let the curmudgeons get on your nerves. Yes some of us are dealing with national issues and cultural shifts, and that can be discouraging. BSA isn’t some up-front investment of thousands. Were it to fold next year, hopefully you’ll have got out what you put in this year.
Positive attitudes year by year ... that’s what shapes the worlds largest youth movement.

[SemperParatus 1]

Mama Llama, 

If you believe in the mission of scouting and want your son to participate, I am not here to change your mind.  That is your and your son's decision.  To be brutally honest, I personally would not want to associate with a youth organization that for decades has aided and abetted the sexual molestation of children by covering up such heinous criminal activity. If I had to do it all over again, I and my family would never have become involved with the BSA.  Some may say, well that's just a national organization problem, ignoring the fact that virtually all the molestations occurred within individual packs and troops.  Some may say, well that's all in the past, pretending that sexual molestation no longer exists in scouting (its just harder for the BSA to cover it up...maybe).  In my opinion, these are nothing more than attempts to defend the indefensible. There was a time when I was proud to wear the uniform with Boy Scouts of America over the breast pocket. Today, I would be ashamed.  I spent many years as a den leader, cubmaster, scoutmaster, committee chair, eagle scout advisor, merit badge counselor and district/council volunteer. I know some good has come from that for the many children and young men that I had the privilege to serve.  But there are many alternatives for a child's development.  I do believe the BSA is not long for this world, membership has been on the decline for decades (culminating with the LDS separation), fees continue to climb, scout camps continue to be sold across the US, there is the bankruptcy, and the only advertisement for scouting that I see today are 30-minute infomercials soliciting scouting's sex abuse victims.  Individual packs, troops and crews do their best to bring scouting alive for those youth they serve, but they are constantly being thwarted at every turn by a national organization that has let them down. Unfortunately, it is a symbiotic relationship.  If national goes away, units fold and vice versa. Just remember, when you and/or your son put on that shirt with Boy Scouts of America written across it, you are representing that organization and all of the good and evil it has stood for.  As a Lion and a new scouting parent, you two probably just want to have a little fun and socialization.  I hope that works out for you and your son.

[Eagledad 2777]

20 minutes ago, SemperParatus said:

Mama Llama, 

If you believe in the mission of scouting and want your son to participate, I am not here to change your mind.

Oh for-pete's-sake, you might have shown some integrity if you stopped at "I am not here to change your mind." But, you couldn't hold to your word. You had to try and change her mind.

26 minutes ago, SemperParatus said:

Mama Llama, 

If you believe in the mission of scouting and want your son to participate, I am not here to change your mind.  That is your and your son's decision.  To be brutally honest, I personally .....bla, bla, bla.

Shesh! Be a better role model. Please!

Barry

[David CO 1783]

12 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Shesh! Be a better role model. Please!

Barry

I think it is wrong for people to alter a quote.  You should not have put in the ...... bla, bla, bla.  Just quote him correctly and add your comments outside the quote box.  Doing so might make you a better role model.

 

[SemperParatus 1]

So Barry, are opinions now forbidden on this site? Are folks not allowed to express themselves without being castigated?

  

[Eagledad 2777]

4 minutes ago, SemperParatus said:

So Barry, are opinions now forbidden on this site? Are folks not allowed to express themselves without being castigated?

  

You were rebuked for mis-representing the intentions of your post. Had you left out the first sentence, it would have been just an opinion. But instead you lectured at one forum member turning your opinion into judgement.

Here is an example of the same thing I saw a lot in scouting: "Hey Bobby, it's your decision of how to run the patrol, but if it were my decision, I would.... bla,bla,bla. Now Bobby has the adult watching over his shoulder. 

Next time just start your post with "I personally ......bla.bla, bla. 

Barry

[ParkMan 1293]

51 minutes ago, SemperParatus said:

So Barry, are opinions now forbidden on this site? Are folks not allowed to express themselves without being castigated?

  

This is the part of the forum to welcome new members.  Coming into this forum and telling a new, enthusiastic parent that:

23 hours ago, SemperParatus said:

My advice would be find another activity for your son.  Scouting is in a death spiral.

Is just picking on a new member.

You want to have that conversation, go over to Issues and Politics and we can hash that out again.  I think we've had that conversation there 10 or 20 times now.  I'm not even going to get into the merits of your argument here because the "New to the Forum" section where someone else is introducing themselves isn't the place for that.

 

Edited September 25, 2020 by ParkMan
expanded the thought

[SSScout 1615]

In any group/organization/association/club.... there are the ideals, the goals, the "official" reasons for the organization's existence , and then there is the reality of what happens.   The people that define the organization (US Constitution? US populace?)  are what make the ideals, the goals achievable. Or betray them....

BSA (and , I dare say, other Scout associations around the world)  has that situation. So do Churches, Mosques, Synagogues, Boys/Girls Clubs,  Soccer Clubs,  swim teams, gymnastics schools,  public Schools, private schools,  equestrian rings,  and bird watching groups.....   

Parents must believe their kids when they come and complain about a youth leader, or a class bully. Adult  Leaders in the youth clubs  need to act proactively to threats to their charges, with integrity and clarity.  Criminal activity must be treated as such, after appropriate investigation.   The BSA (et al) have learned these necessities late to their  regret.  The present day BSA now has many safeguards in place that, in hind sight, would 've profited our earlier days.   

A thoughtful teacher of my past days in high school was recently convicted of child molestation. It was headline news in our local paper. I had nothing but pleasant memories in his french class. Obviously, someone else did not, and the teacher is being properly dealt with.  Nothing hidden.   The past BSA unfortunately, did not deal with such problems as openly . This is a lesson hard to learn, and the BSA organization is reaping it's just rewards (lawyer fees are another discussion). 

All Scouting Is Local.   The local units, Packs, Troops, Crews, Ships, Posts,  are locally organized and run.  The "brand"  is national, indeed, international, but the Scouting is you and me and our neighborhood VFW , volunteer fire house, Rotary, Methodist Church and synagogue.    If we see something, hear something from our Scout(s),  it is not up to Irving to do something about it, it is up to us.  

The BSA as it is will not be here this time next year.  It will be changed.  But the Scout Promise and Scout Law will be here. The Poison Ivy will still be on the tree . The rain will still leak into the 12 year old kid"s tent.  The 50 miler canoe hike will still be the memory of the old woman or man after you and I have been recalled after our warranty is up. 

Mama Llama  (I'll give you the song in a minute),  if your opinion of the Goals of Scouting (kinda like the British constitution, I guess) is such that you want your youngster to reach for those particular stars, then help him , and any other Scouts you meet, along the way.  Don't forget, they will be picking out your assisted living facility.

Good Scouting to you, I'll see you on the trail. 

https://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/llama 

[MattR 2659]

21 hours ago, heres_a_llama said:

I believe in the mission of scouting and want my kids to participate. We are Jewish and many of the Scouts BSA alternatives are either not a good fit for us (Pioneer, Trail Life USA, Awanas, CotF, Faith-Based Boys, Royal Ambassadors, Spiral Scouts, etc) or not in our area (Baden Powell). What would you recommend we do? 

Join scouts.

My wife and I were going through old photographs and there was a pile from when my son was a webelo and a young boy scout. I vaguely remember when he was a tiger cub. He's 29 now and takes his dogs up 14000' mountains. While I still cherish my time with him he'll never sit in my lap again. Most all of scouting is at the unit level and so all the politics and rehashing of perceived mistakes can be ignored.

Shanah Tova.

[Eagledad 2777]

15 minutes ago, MattR said:

Join scouts.

My wife and I were going through old photographs and there was a pile from when my son was a webelo and a young boy scout. I vaguely remember when he was a tiger cub. He's 29 now and takes his dogs up 14000' mountains. While I still cherish my time with him he'll never sit in my lap again. Most all of scouting is at the unit level and so all the politics and rehashing of perceived mistakes can be ignored.

Shanah Tova.

So that I have a better picture in my head, what kind of dogs?

Barry

[MattR 2659]

15 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

So that I have a better picture in my head, what kind of dogs?

Barry

A lab/golden mix and an Australian shepherd. Two dogs that need to be exercised.

 

[Eagledad 2777]

21 minutes ago, MattR said:

A lab/golden mix and an Australian shepherd. Two dogs that need to be exercised.

 

Well that will be easy; my Aussie (Gracie) is the best dog we ever owned and my younger son has one also. My daughter has two Golden lab mixes. Laberdoodles. All very smart. 

We are a big time dog family.

Thanks

[David CO 1783]

58 minutes ago, MattR said:

Most all of scouting is at the unit level and so all the politics and rehashing of perceived mistakes can be ignored.

Ignored?  This attitude is what got us into this bankruptcy mess in the first place.  BSA should not have ignored the child abuse.  It was a big mistake that should never be repeated.