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ParkMan

What if someone buys the BSA during bankruptcy?

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12 minutes ago, yknot said:

Maybe someone buys Philmont, Bechtel, and the BSA name and then tries to run a branded national high end resort style, high adventure program out of those two sites and you have to attend those sites or satellite sites to participate in the program and earn the credentials?

They can sell the properties and the U.S. Code allows for that.

Quote

 

(b) Limitations on Exercising Certain Powers.—

(1) The corporation may execute mortgages and liens on the property of the corporation only if approved by a two-thirds vote of the entire executive board at a meeting called for that purpose.
(2) The corporation may dispose in any manner of the whole property of the corporation only with the written consent and affirmative vote of a majority of the members of the corporation.

 

 

The NAME however can NOT be sold and is the exclusive control of Boy Scouts of America.
 

Quote

The corporation has the exclusive right to use emblems, badges, descriptive or designating marks, and words or phrases the corporation adopts. This section does not affect any vested rights.

 

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Frankly despite past precedents and other bankruptcies I think we may be confronted with a lot of developments previously unimagined. However, it still comes down to who in reality would want to pay money for anything related to BSA aside from its physical properties. 

 

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5 hours ago, walk in the woods said:

6 and 7 figure salaries of the Pros.

So, I decided to take a look at this. We don't have National's IRS 990 forms for 2019 year; they have until May 15, but almost every group I've ever known always files for the automatic 6-month extension, so I don't think anything of it. We do have for 2018, which were filed in October 2019 (again, 6 month automatic extension).

IRS Form 990 (Tax Year 2018)
Part VII Compensation of Officers, Directors, Trustees, Key Employees, Highest Compensated Employees, and Independent Contractors

(A) Name and Title

(D) Reportable compensation from the organization (W-2/1099-MISC).

(F) Estimated amount of other compensation from the organization and related organizations

(D) + (F)

TOP 16 EXECUTIVES TOTAL

5,766,148

3,466,893

9,233,041

Michael B Surbaugh
Chief Scout Executive and President

793,824

206,878

1,000,702

Michael A Ashline
Chief Financial Officer and Treasurer

445,111

141,575

586,686

P McGowan
General Counsel and Secretary

394,368

118,673

513,041

John Green
Group Director - Outdoor Adventures

471,671

646,612

1,118,283

Mark Logemann
ACSE, National Dir Support Services

313,249

295,226

608,475

Al Lambert
ACSE, Dir Outdoor Adventures

349,433

232,038

581,471

Patrick Sterrett
ACSE, Nall Dir Field Service

387,012

177,445

564,457

Brad Farmer
ACSE, Development

349,140

175,450

524,590

Todd McGregor
Group Director - Summit

231,916

200,703

432,619

Mark Winkelman
Group Director - Supply

280,342

145,828

426,170

Vijay Challa
Group Director - Chief Information Officer

257,406

56,698

314,104

Ron Oats
Regional Director

372,417

211,699

584,116

Frederick Wallace
Regional Director

298,993

283,028

582,021

Lisa Young
Group Director - Human Resources

264,054

225,244

489,298

John Mosby
Regional Director

292,314

193,521

485,835

Steve Medlicott
Group Director - Marketing

264,898

156,275

421,173

 


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Of course, the above data does not indicate what these people should make.

I understand there are people here who believe that these execs should make $0, but that's not realistic.

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59 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

I understand there are people here who believe that these execs should make $0, but that's not realistic.

$0 as in person fired, position eliminated, or ... restructured and filled by a volunteer?

Some of those executives received large increases in just one year. Compare to 2017 Schedule J (page 93)

Also of note (page 17)

image.thumb.png.00e7fd6ae0b8a39f34daa8fe6678b5aa.png

Also of note Schedule F - Activities Outside the United States, Grants and Assistance to Individuals Outside the U S  (pages 52-69). Some serious scout bucks to "Support International Scouting".

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7 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

$0 as in person fired, position eliminated, or ... restructured and filled by a volunteer?

Filled by volunteer. I very much get the impression that many (most?) people in this forum won't be happy if any scout executives receive a cent in compensation.

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1 hour ago, CynicalScouter said:

Filled by volunteer. I very much get the impression that many (most?) people in this forum won't be happy if any scout executives receive a cent in compensation.

I've made similar comments before, but here's my take on these salaries:

I think these seem reasonable for a national organization like the BSA:

  • $794K  - Chief Scout Executive and President
  • $445K  - Chief Financial Officer and Treasurer
  • $394K  - General Counsel and Secretary
  • $349K  - ACSE, Development
  • $280K  - Group Director - Supply
  • $264K  - Group Director - Human Resources
  • $232K  - Group Director - Summit

You go down that list and they all have to solve very complex issues, run large organizations, or serve thousands of employees and even more volunteers across the country.  I don't mind investing for quality in these roles.

These seem underpaid to me:

  • $265K  - Group Director - Marketing
  • $257K  - Group Director - Chief Information Officer

One of the primary purposes of the national organization is marketing the BSA.  Good marketing people are expensive.  We should be investing here.  Similarly with the CIO.  For a national organization with so many scouts and volunteers, the BSA should be investing in it's technology infrastructure.  Good CIOs are expensive too.  Again, I don't mind investing in quality people here.

I don't understand what these do enough to speak intelligently on their salary

  • $387K  - ACSE, Nall Dir Field Service
  • $372K  - Regional Director
  • $313K  - ACSE, National Dir Support Services
  • $299K  - Regional Director
  • $292K  - Regional Director

These all seem like they have roles where the heavy lifting is done by councils.  I'm sure I'm missing something as it seems like a lot of high powered people to interact with councils which are almost entirely self sufficient.  I'm not following here.  I can only assume that these roles are going to highly tenured professionals who in turn command high salaries based on their tenure and the commensurate counsel salaries for those people.  i.e., if the average Scout Executive is making 200K, then maybe they feel they need to pay an regional director 300K.  I just don't know.

These seem like they overlap

  • $472K  - Group Director - Outdoor Adventures
  • $349K  - ACSE, Dir Outdoor Adventures

Managing the high adventure bases is important.  But why so many highly compensated people in that function.  Is it that challenging a task to manage four high adventure bases?

Edited by ParkMan
hit enter too quickly.

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Al Lambert's retirement was just announced along with some consolidation. Too bad this type of info isn't given out via Scoutingwire or something. 

 

“To: National Executive Board, Scout Executives, all National Council Employees
The recent reduction in force has affected all levels of the BSA. We are disappointed to formally announce that the Assistant Chief Scout Executive - National Director of Outdoor Adventures position has been eliminated. Because of that action, Al Lambert has decided to retire and his last day will be December 31, 2020.
Going forward, John Mosby will give leadership to international programs, Order of the Arrow, the National Jamboree team, and the Outdoor Program and Properties Group. Patrick Sterrett will give leadership to the four High Adventure Base Directors.
 
Al’s iconic tenure with the BSA is best described by the words loyal and brave as found in our Scout Law. Al was passionately loyal to his staff, volunteer teams, and the principles of the BSA. He exhibited bravery when confronted with challenges that most would avoid. He accepted the challenges across his career and rallied his teams time and time again to do things they did not think they were capable of.
 
His loyalty to the BSA and its people resulted in numerous promotions of his team members with several ascending to become Scout executives. Many turned to Al in their toughest and most defining moments. He believes that our movement is built on relationships, volunteer and professional alike, and he worked hard to support all who he worked with.
 
Al’s distinguished and remarkable 40 year BSA career started in 1980 as an Exploring executive in the Chicago Area Council in Chicago, Illinois. He continued as field director for the East Valley Area Council in Forest Hills, Pennsylvania. In June of 1990, he was selected as Scout executive of the Mason Dixon Council in Hagerstown, Maryland, and then became deputy Scout executive of the National Capital Area Council in Bethesda, Maryland. In 1998, he was chosen as Scout executive of the Daniel Webster Council in Manchester, New Hampshire, and in November of 2004, he returned to become the Scout executive of the National Capital Area Council. In February of 2010, he became the Central Region Director. In his role as Central Region Director, he was tirelessly out and about with council teams engaging with unit serving executives and councils across the region. In 2016, the Central Region held an amazing All Hands that focused on empowering new executives and connecting them to our movement. In 2017, Al was selected as the Assistant Chief Scout Executive for Outdoor Adventures. In his role as ACSE, he was known to many as the “Director of Fun” – focusing on the promise of fun and adventure in Scouting programs – from the World Jamboree to amazing high adventure programs.
 
Al has been married to his high school sweetheart, Patricia, for 40 years. They have two daughters, two sons-in-law (one of which is a Scout executive), and five adventurous grandchildren.
 
We ask you to extend your very best wishes to Al and Pat as they transition to this next phase of their lives in beautiful New Hampshire...”
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Thank you @mrjohns2.

It sounds like Mr. Lambert had a distinguished career.  I thank him for devoting his career to Scouting and certainly wish them well.

Of all the national job descriptions, his sounds like one of the most understandable.  I really do wish that the BSA would make their national organization more transparent to us all at the council level.

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